Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I welcome the Minister of State and associate myself with the words of congratulation and acknowledgement to all concerned, namely the Taoiseach, Senator Mansergh and others behind the scenes. It is an extraordinary achievement.

Some people upbraid political parties for confronting Sinn Féin but it is healthy. It means that party is being welcomed into constitutional politics. They are part of the game now and must take the ups and downs of political life. They are fair game now that they are engaged in the challenge for the hearts and minds of voters. There is nothing wrong with that and I do not consider it mean-spirited for political parties to take their chosen positions.

The condition of Protestant working class estates is a problem. I recall the pictures of Mo Mowlam visiting the republican section of the Maze and seeing prisoners in their smart suits and well-cut clothes looking clean, tidy and respectable. Then she visited the loyalist side and met men with enhanced muscular development, tattoos and short hair. The difference was striking and will take generations to break down. We need to win trust and confidence among those people. In the loyalist community working class estates are completely cut off from political representation and see no value in politics, no gains to be made from a process from which they are disconnected. This at variance with the republican side who see politics as a way forward. Richard O'Rawe's book about the H-blocks and the attitude of the Sinn Féin leadership to the transition from the gun into politics is interesting.

The point Senator Maurice Hayes made about reconciliation is crucial and is worth focusing on. I have dealt with Northern Ireland all my professional life and could present chapter and verse about the importance of local administration. The Sinn Féin Minister for Education was superb because he was from Northern Ireland and sympathetic to all sides. It was refreshing to deal with a Minister who was rooted in the area. A previous Minister, who later became chairman of the conservative party, was ineffective, even though he was born in the North.

The Minister will have been aware from his career as a teacher that in the North they had a policy called education for mutual understanding and cultural heritage. It did not work because the bar was too low. Members of the two communities met twice a year and played a game of soccer. They did not play Gaelic football or cricket. Part of the mutual understanding was that there were lines that were not crossed.

Tolerance was the next big idea and is a fine aspiration. Cardinal Newman said tolerance was the mark of an educated person. However, it does not bring us far enough and does not breach the problem we have created in the North which will take generations to undo. It does not bring us to the reconciliation about which Senator Hayes spoke. Ultimately it means not just giving space to people, but understanding them and being ecumenical. As we have learned from other parts of the world it is not about the space we give each other but the quality of the engagement and interaction between us. That does not happen at present. The day we take down the peace line will be a bigger day than this week.