Michael Kitt (Fianna Fail)

I take up the point that Senator Terry made on giving parents a choice and having the child at the centre of any child care proposals. That is one of the more important issues being discussed here. Although we do not need a debate on whether parents should work, we have all seen the statistics on the increase in female participation in the labour force.

An emphasis existed in the past on investing in schools on the basis that children attended school aged four years or over. Through the years successive Governments neglected the issue of child care from birth to the age of four. There were strong arguments against having investment in child care, with some of the reasons emanating from educational quarters. As a member of the INTO, I am aware that the organisation was concerned that such a proposal could result in an early education system that might be carried out by non-professionals. We should not be concerned about that now as we are discussing an overall child care package that is not entirely about education at an early age.

It is clear that Ireland has changed, with a large increase in population since 1994, and children under the age of six years comprising approximately 10% of the population. There has also been an increase in the number of women working outside the home, from 483,000 in 1995 to 771,000 in 2004, an increase of 60%. Public investment in child care is less than 0.2% of GDP, which reflects poorly to the European average of 0.5% of GDP. Every Senator has made that point.

Much investment is needed in community child care. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform allocates grants of more than €1 million to some community child care centres yet many do not have a site and have to buy one. If a new school was being built in any part of Ireland the money to buy the site would be provided. That is an issue about which many forget. While many are refurbishing buildings the cost is enormous.

The issue of transport must be taken into account. In regard to disability Senator Mooney said that children with special needs may have to travel long distances in mini-buses around rural Ireland. One does not want the same happening with child care. We have seen on "Prime Time" the strain and stress on young couples who have to travel long distances to and from work and avail of child care before going to work.

An issue that arose when the matter was discussed in Cavan was the black economy. Unfortunately that is used in regard to a granny, granddad, aunt or uncle looking after children. It would be foolish to stop this as families make their own arrangements. It is important to be clear about this as it goes back to choice. I have heard some experts say that people will have to be retrained in certain skills. I would not like to say that to some grannies who think they know much more about child care than I or my generation. Perhaps that issue should be left aside.

In the past the Government increased child benefit which was useful. As a result one could say to people working outside the home that the increased child benefit could go towards paying for child care. For that reason it is a complex area.

I wish to refer to the rural social scheme about which not many are aware. It was introduced with rural people and those involved in agriculture in mind. I see great benefits for that scheme in the area of child care and looking after the elderly. Sometimes we think a rural social scheme is about building walls and looking after the environment. There are innovative schemes for child care as well as the work normally associated with community employment-FÁS schemes.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, for what he has done. We are all familiar with the private child care areas. However on the issue of community child care, even though more than €1 million has been allocated by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the amount will have to be increased to take into account refurbishment of buildings, lack of a site and lack of money to buy a site. This will have to be done carefully in certain areas to avoid children travelling long distances to child care centres.