Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)

This discussion is very interesting. Senator Brady is correct on the 1961 Mr. Justice Budd judgment in the O'Donovan case. That was an interesting decision because most of what we have to say on the Constitution and the variance between the numbers of seats and Deputies flows from that judgment. Mr. Justice Budd made the observation that counties do not have a constitutional existence. They exist in law and practice since the 12th century and because we are close to them. Had we decided at the foundation of the State not to name constituencies after counties but according to a different nomenclature, such as electoral districts one to 42, we would not find ourselves in this ongoing debate. We are where we are, however.

To accept amendment No. 7 or amendment No. 10 would be to violate the decision of the commission. I am aware it is not the opposing party's intention to press the issue. We have to support the decision made by the commission. The issue noted by Senator Browne is correct. Deputy Timmons and I spend a lot of time in that small area of north-east County Carlow. For a debate in the Dáil, I calculated that, discounting driving, the per capita time I spend conducting constituency clinics in north-east County Carlow is longer by a factor of four to five than the time I spend in Bray, the town in which I live and where the population is located. As an Oireachtas Member, I have the job of covering the whole constituency. This poses problems. It is frustrating to look through the back window of my house at a chunk of land that has a Bray postal address but is located in the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown constituency. The people living there feel cut off because a green patch separates them from Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. It is difficult to attain perfection in this matter.

Returning to the matters raised by other contributions, if we start fiddling with names, we would have to make changes in north-east counties Cork and Carlow and elsewhere. The nomenclature issue becomes difficult at that stage. I am aware that amendments No. 7 and 10 are not being pressed. In accordance with the principle we all established that the commission should be supported, I would not be in a position to accept them if they are pressed. The debate is worth having, however.