Joanna Tuffy (Labour)

I recognise the need for such a provision but I am concerned that it could be heavy handed. The Minister stated he received advice from the Attorney General that it is in order. I wonder whether fair procedures will be followed through the use of such a provision. The type of hearing provided under standard disciplinary procedures is not provided for. Can somebody speak on behalf of a member whom it is proposed to dismiss? There is no provision for appeal. The Minister points out that the Government has control over more senior positions such as the Garda Commissioner, who can be dismissed, but that is different because those people are Government appointees. A person of the rank provided for here goes through different public service procedures to be appointed. The comparison cannot be made. These people are not appointed by the Government.

The Government appointment process is more transparent and accountable. Under the legislation the Government can decide to dismiss a person of a particular rank but it must account for this to the Dáil and the Seanad. Section 14(2)(d) refers to an indirect accountability. The Government must to an extent trust the opinion of the Garda Commissioner.

Senator Jim Walsh made a general point about the promotional ladder in the force but Senator White referred to members retiring at the age of 57. That will have to be reviewed because retirement age will be reviewed in every other profession. We cannot start to discuss abolishing compulsory retirement in other areas and not look at this provision.

The Minister brought ageism into the discussion. While he is not malicious he referred to the physical attributes of a 57 year old. A 40 year old might not be able to jump over walls but a 57 year old might. When one removes people from any job at a particular age one loses wisdom and experience.