Joanna Tuffy (Labour)

I accept that but I felt I should point it out.

I am pleased the Minister has returned because the issue of the ombudsman is one of the fundamental issues in the Bill. I am not happy with the solution the Minister has put forward. While it is a step in the right direction, it is still a fudge. Senator White said one should be able to identify the person. It does not matter because it is still not an ombudsman. One can identify the chairperson of the Garda Síochána Complaints Board as Mr. Gordon A. Holmes but that does not make him an ombudsman. People said that one should appoint the right person. That is not how it should be. It is the office that should exude independence, not the person.

It is still a fudge and I am not happy about it. In bringing forward the new proposal that there will be a chairperson of the ombudsman commission, the Minister is responding to the second Morris tribunal report. One criticism in the report was directed at the Oireachtas. This related to the ombudsman commission. In tabling this amendment, the Minister is responding to that criticism. However, he is not doing what the criticism would require, which is to appoint an ombudsperson. It is still a commission, which is like trying to have it both ways. The amendment has many faults. I do not understand why the Minister will not allow for an ombudsman. If he is prepared to respond to the report of the Morris tribunal, why does he not go the whole way and do what is required, which is to provide for a single person ombudsman?

What is an ombudsman and where does the definition and concept come from? The definition of an ombudsman in the Oxford dictionary is an official, not some officials or a few officials. The definition incorporates an official appointed to investigate individual's complaints against bad or dishonest administrations, especially that of public authorities. It originated in Sweden where it entailed an official, not some officials, a commission or anything like that. The idea is that it is a legal representative or one individual who acts on behalf of the public. It is not a vague notion that people would like an ombudsman, it is because it is best practice. It is the best type of institution to do the type of job we require. Everyone refers to a good individual. The idea behind the concept of ombudsperson is an individual who has this type of authority. The point is that a single person has a popular authority behind them.

The whole argument for a single person ombudsman was encapsulated in the annual report of the Garda Síochána Complaints Board when the chairman, Mr. Holmes, argued against a single individual. He said it would lead to a personality-based conflict with the gardaí. This is why we need a single person ombudsman. A single individual would have the popular authority to take on Garda management and have public backing when he or she must deal with the Minister and the Government.

Members said the buck would stop with that individual, which will not happen with a three person commission. The provision is seriously flawed because it is up to the three people how much authority they vest in the chairperson. They may or may not vest authority in that person. We have no idea. The individual concerned could be a great person, but the three persons might not give him or her the authority he or she needs. The decision is being left up to these people.

Another problem is that the three person commission would have to hold a meeting before they could have a vote. Instead of being able to make a decision on their own, and having all that authority vested in them, they must have a three person meeting. The biggest problem is that it is a majority vote. If two people make a different decision from the chairman, where will that leave the ombudsperson and that single individual who exudes all the authority? He or she will be left high and dry with no authority at all. I have examined the Minister's arguments and the more I examine them the more I believe he is wrong in not appointing a single person ombudsman. I hope the legislation will be reviewed and that we will introduce a single person ombudsman.

The Minister made the point that apart from the Northern Ireland region there are regions in England with bigger populations where there are decentralised police forces or different police authorities and which have commissions. However, there are also countries with much larger populations than the Republic of Ireland who have an office of a single-person ombudsman. Furthermore, as Senator Cummins has said, in other areas we basically put a single person ombudsman in the ombudsman's role. Ms Emily O'Reilly is a single person Ombudsman for the whole of the Republic of Ireland. The ombudsman in the North of Ireland has 123 staff and a budget of several million pounds. According to Gordon Holmes in the introduction to the annual report she has approximately 15 times the budget of the Garda Síochána Complaints Board. That is extraordinary for an ombudsman representing, as the Minister puts it, merely a region rather than a state.

Senator Cummins made the point that if the ombudsman goes on holiday somebody should be able to take over but every ombudsman goes on holidays. Emily O'Reilly goes on holiday but her staff keep the office running in her absence and she retains authority over the office. If the Minister went on holiday we would not look for a replacement while he was away. Under the proposed legislation the chairman can be replaced by another member which can lead to a lack of continuity.

The Minister made a comparison with the Supreme Court but the Supreme Court is not the same. An ombudsman is a representative like a barrister. People do not have three barristers acting for them.