Joe O'Toole (Independent)

He thought that this new body will have no teeth. Even if it had, he suddenly thought to himself, it might begin to interfere with the market. From the point of view of Senator Ross, the last action we want to take is interfere with the market. He backed off that and began discussing quangos, trade unions and the absence of action. That is exactly what will happen here.

I tried to be fair minded and disinterested in looking at the groceries order with regard to what will and will not work. I examined the arguments of both sides and have to say that they balance out. The groceries order has existed for a number of years but it is patently not working. It is not doing what it is supposed to do. That is the reason people want to get rid of it.

If we get rid of it, we will eventually depend on the large supermarkets and, in particular, Tesco and the multinationals. We would then be trusting organisations such as Tesco. I know that Senator Ross tried on a number of occasions to establish the profit margins of Tesco in Ireland. The decent people in Tesco told any of us who sought this information to get lost, that it was none of our business and they would not inform us. We recognise that Tesco's profit levels are higher in Ireland than in any other country in which it is based but we do not know how or why.