Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)

When I conclude I presume there will be somebody here to second the motion. We will allay the fears of Senator Hayes. I know he is very concerned about this matter but we are well aware of the procedures here and we intend to adopt them.

I recognise the publication of the report of the consumer strategy group entitled Making Consumers Count: A New Direction for Irish Consumers. I welcome the Minister, Deputy Martin, to the House and wish him well in his extensive Ministry. It is an enormous responsibility. Having served in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment as Minister of State with responsibility for trade I am aware of his overall responsibility and the enormous effort involved with Enterprise Ireland, the IDA and all the other aspects of trade and regulations. I congratulate the Minister on his new Employment Permits Bill, which is a worthwhile proposal.

The report of the consumer strategy group is a milestone in Irish public policy. It is the first inclusive report written entirely from the consumer's point of view. Current consumer policy was not effective in meeting the needs of the modern consumer. Therefore, it is essential a new agency with an expanded remit be established.

Fianna Fáil is committed to making consumers count, so the change is in their pockets after purchasing goods. We are committed to making consumers count just how much value for money they are getting. This is evident from the establishment of the consumer strategy group by the Tánaiste and then Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, in March 2004, in response to widespread public concern and reaction to what was termed rip-off Ireland.

The brief of the consumer strategy group was to make a proposal for development of a national consumer strategy for Ireland. At that stage, I also launched a name and shame campaign because I was concerned a serious problem in regard to prices existed, an issue I raised on numerous occasions in the House. The consumer strategy group in its report states that the Irish consumer needs to be rationalised and given support and encouragement to trigger a cycle in which well-informed consumers are not only more willing to spend their money but more likely to favour progressive suppliers who offer more choice, better quality, superior services and innovative products and services at fair prices.

Enhancing the position of consumers within society is not just a matter of lowering prices. There should be a marriage of strong legislation and informed consumers for policy to work. Consumer power in Ireland is currently weak. It is widely accepted that informed and empowered consumers are a powerful social and economic force. This Government policy should strengthen and empower the consumer, enabling individuals to make better choices and be better able to obtain their rights.

Ireland's social partnership model provides an additional channel through which different groups can influence a programme for economic and social development. However, there is no direct consumer input into the social partnership process. The Government has, therefore, taken the steps to ensure consumers have a direct input into policy formulation and into decisions that have a major consumer impact. This is clearly evidenced by the decision of the Minister to engage in a public consultation process on the future of the groceries order.

The members of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business have already considered the groceries order. We are deeply concerned with any proposals to remove the ban on below cost selling, a matter the Minister is also considering. The committee has had numerous meetings, some attended by the Minister. We urge caution in regard to the removal of the order because it has proved very successful and its removal would be dangerous.

When the committee discussed the issue last week, the Chairman stated he was aware of a multiple selling items at more than 20% below cost. At that meeting, I stated I was concerned that the consumer strategy group was another semi-State organisation. I appeal to the Minister to make the group effective and efficient in its work. In the past we have tended to consolidate and amalgamate semi-State organisations. In that regard, this organisation is a new departure.

I hope the Minister will indicate to the House the projected cost of the consumer strategy group and the benefits that will accrue to the economy due to its establishment. A voluntary organisation is currently in operation, the Consumers Association of Ireland, which is neither well funded nor supported. I understand from my dealings with it that it is a small organisation, which has worked exceedingly hard in difficult circumstances but has not received the support of Irish consumers. Its funding is approximately €60,000 per annum. The Minister and his officials might consider the matter. If he cannot provide the information today, he might do so in the future. While the Consumers Association of Ireland was well-intentioned, it was not in a position to deliver a strong consumer organisation for the State or the consumer. In a sense, I understand the Minister's rationale in establishing the consumer strategy group.

The Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business met Ms Ann Fitzgerald, chairperson of the consumer strategy group, on Wednesday, 22 June last. The committee was concerned with certain aspects of her report, including the compilation of the basket of goods used as a comparison to, in a sense, question costs in this economy. We questioned the inclusion in that basket of items such as an electric toothbrush, Bacardi rum and other items. From a press statement reported in The Irish Times on 23 June last, I believe Ms Fitzgerald is now having second thoughts on the recommendations she made to the Minister in this regard. We should compare like with like. This economy has a minimum wage of some €7.65 compared to one of approximately €3.50 in Spain. It is not fair to compare these. The article in The Irish Times stated: "The chairwoman of the Consumer Strategy Group (CSG) has called for a compromise on the question of abolishing the Groceries Order to give both consumers and retailers a 'fair deal'." I welcome that statement.

The Minister comes to his Department with a fresh approach. While he may feel it is of no benefit to consumers to retain the groceries order, the general consensus of the Joint Committee of Enterprise and Small Business was that we should retain the order as a cornerstone of the industry. We see no benefit in tampering with the order, which has served the consumer well. To remove it might sound the death knell for small rural shops, which are under major threat at present.

Concern about the order was expressed by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, with regard to the size of hardware stores. However, that did not apply to groceries. The Minister might indicate that the present structure and size of stores are generally accepted in the State and have proven quite successful. There is no reason to increase the size of stores, a point the Minister should consider.

Small shops in rural areas are under pressure and have been so for a long time. In my area of County Roscommon, Donamon has only a small shop left. The post office is gone and two other shops are closing. Small shops in places such as Ballinaheglish are gone and many rural areas are devoid of small shops. If the Minister removes the order at this time, it will signal the end of stores which have been successful in fighting competition from the multinationals.

Roscommon town is an interesting example of what is happening in the grocery industry. Tesco has arrived in the town and is being followed by Dunnes Stores, which will probably be followed by Aldi and Lidl. It is undoubted that this is a boost to the town and has created much-needed employment, as well as giving consumers choice. Where consumers were travelling to Athlone, Longford and Galway, they are now shopping in the town and customers are being attracted from the surrounding areas. To my knowledge, this has not to date caused any closures in the locality and local shops are quite happy to compete with those organisations provided the groceries order is retained.

The Minister is establishing the consumer strategy group on a non-statutory basis but a statutory framework will be provided in due course. The combined wisdom of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business believed that the groceries order should be retained. The members had no vested interests, other than the interests of consumers and those in rural areas. If the Minister changes the current position, it will be to the detriment of small businesses. The national consumer agency will act as a powerful resource for consumers and as a strong voice on their behalf. It will have ready access to information on goods and services, and on prices and quality.

By his presence the Minister recognises the position of this House. On behalf of this House I thank the Minister as I know there are demands on his time.