Brendan Ryan (Labour)

No, it does not clarify anything. Section 6 states, "In construing a provision of any Act or statutory instrument, a court may make allowances for any changes in the law, social conditions, technology, the meaning of words used in an Act or statutory instrument and other relevant matters...". How would it not help to clarify what was meant by the words at the time the legislation was passed? What better way is there than to examine what the Members of the Legislature thought they meant, which is what Committee Stage is about?

I do not accept that providing that the courts "may" examine the debates is sufficient. I would be last to say that the courts must examine the debates because I do not wish to constrain the Judiciary and we probably would not be entitled to force the Judiciary to do so. It should be made clear that judges may examine them. All of us accept they examine the debates. However, I recall raising a question with a senior official in a Department regarding something that happened in the House and he replied that the Seanad debates were not circulated to the Department and he did not know what I was talking about. The Houses of the Oireachtas are an important reference point and for all the rubbish I hear uttered in the House on occasion, I have heard a great deal of good sense talked by Members with different perspectives, which set issues very much in the context of the country as it is today.

If the Minister of State is reluctant to do so, I will draft an amendment for Report Stage but I would prefer if he would draw on the expertise at his disposal. There is no reason to exclude a subsection stating: "The debates of the Houses of the Oireachtas and committees thereof."