Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)

I thank Senators for their sensitive consideration of the issues surrounding the Bill. It addresses issues of which we are all conscious. All Members wish to ensure the process is correct and sympathetic to those involved.

Everybody who applied to the confidential committee will be heard and get an opportunity to tell their story. Everybody who applied to the investigation committee will be interviewed but not all will go to a full hearing. This protects those not able for full hearings but it also allows the commission a way that will ensure a reasonable representation of the years, people and issues involved. At the same time, it will ensure the process does not take 12 years, putting a dreadful pressure on everyone involved. No one wants this to happen. For the majority of institutions involved, everyone will get a full hearing. However, for the very large ones it would not be possible to do so. The commission recommended this proposal to ensure it could continue its work while protecting the interests of all survivors.

I appreciate Members are interested in the appointment of members of the finance board. The sum of €12.7 million is a large one to be spent on education but it is valuable in that it can open new opportunities for people. With regard to the survivors of the institutions who will be members of the board, I will be consulting with the various groups to see how best to make those appointments. I have already met with some groups which are supportive of the changes proposed in the Bill.

I am aware of the concerns raised by Senators Henry and Ryan regarding the redress board. Many of these issues have already been raised by the survivors' groups. Officials from the Department of Education and Science are in consultation with the groups and the national office for victims of abuse to see what can be done to assist survivors after they have told their stories to the redress board and the commission. It must be a dreadfully traumatic experience to tell one's story. It is not necessarily that the boards are causing trauma but the actual revival of memories in telling the story. When I met with Mr. Justice O'Leary recently, one matter he highlighted was that anyone telling his or her story is allowed to have a counsellor waiting outside, which will be paid for by the redress board. However, few people take up this opportunity. They probably did not realise the effect of re-telling their stories. It is an offer those attending the board in the future may wish to consider. These are issues of which we are conscious because it is a difficult process.

The commission and the redress board have all the resources and staff they require. The Government is committed to ensuring they can do their work well and efficiently. The Department of Education and Science has given dedicated staff and resources and has provided approximately 150,000 pages of documentation to the commission in response to all its requests. After Ms Justice Laffoy's criticisms, it was highlighted that some requests to the Department could not have been answered. They were taken on board and we appreciate her work with the commission. Our determination is to ensure the process is sympathetic, efficient and cost effective. The Department and the Government are committed to meeting their requirements. Over 30 people are working on the redress board and 53 people work with the commission. Resources are provided on request. The commission and the Department are satisfied that there is no conflict in this area.

Regarding the Donal Dunne case and the numbers involved in day schools, the commission issued the most recent figures in its third interim report in January 2004. It is up to it to decide what information it gives and when it will be published. Nothing in this legislation affects the position of day schools. This work can continue but the commission will make its information available as soon as possible. Senator Ryan raised an issue concerning the drafting of the Bill. We will discuss this with the Parliamentary Counsel to see if this needs to be addressed.

Senator Fitzgerald quoted the saying "justice delayed is justice denied". As legislators, in trying to address the issues for the survivors, the last thing we want is to delay the process any longer. This amending legislation goes some way to ensuring we can address the issues and concerns of the victims while ensuring there is an effective system to do so. I look forward to discussing some of the issues raised by Senators on Committee Stage. I thank them for their sensitivity in dealing with these matters.