Joe O'Toole (Independent)

Before I begin I would like to digress somewhat. I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, on his spirited and very well placed defence of the OPW in the past 24 hours, which some people appreciate. While I would not have associated his party with a spirited defence of aspects of the public service, it is good to see. I say this from the heart. It is important that balance is provided when required and that people are not merely criticised.

When I first got involved with education for underprivileged and disadvantaged people in 1977, I discovered that 90% of the prison population came from easily identifiable areas covering approximately 5% of the area of the State. As well as the prison population coming from areas of serious underprivilege it is not without significance that the illiteracy levels in underprivileged areas is much higher than would be the case generally. The number of children with special learning needs is much higher in areas of underprivilege. When these factors taken together are applied to the points made by Senator Henry and considered in terms of the recommendations of the Inspector of Prisons a number of matters come to light.

I do not quite know what to make of the report of the Inspector of Prisons. Some very important matters, mentioned by Senator Henry, should be implemented immediately. I do not know what to make of a recommendation that a fax and Dictaphone machine be installed in the medical section of Arbour Hill prison. I sometimes lose the scale of it along the way. The recommendation that, except where it is not feasible for security reasons, Members of the Oireachtas should have access to visiting prisons is a very good idea. It is important for us to know what we are talking about when discussing these matters and this recommendation could be easily implemented. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform always resists such recommendations and the last thing it ever wants is to have additional politicians poking their noses into its private business. I have said this privately and publicly to Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform many times. We can be trusted to look around and see what is going on in the knowledge we will not come out with anything extra in our pockets. I ask that that recommendation be implemented.

The Judiciary and criminal lawyers should have the same facility and be invited to look around. Some members of the Judiciary have already said they would like to be in a position to understand prisons more clearly and some of them have done that. It would be very sensible for those three groups to visit prisons. I know there has been some conflict between the Inspector of Prisons, and the Department and the Minister, which is just politics and needs to run its course.

Somebody needs to consider these recommendations in the way Senator Henry has done and determine which are important to address. I will focus on the matters I believe to be important. The psychological issue is crucial. The problem begins with a reading difficulty, which creates all sorts of frustrations. My background is in the world of small business. From a very young age it was drilled into me that poor people are generally honest people. However, because prisoners tend to come from underprivileged areas, there is a view that people from inner city underprivileged areas are not to be trusted in some way. We should be aware that the opposite is the case in general. We must realise that people who live in the underprivileged areas, from which many of our prisons come, live in fear of their lives much of the time.

The level of recidivism among Irish prisoners is huge and indicates that imprisonment is not working. While I know this argument has been used many times and I do not want it to sound like cant, I do not see why people cannot serve an apprenticeship while in prison. Given the cost of keeping a prisoner in jail for a year, if we proposed putting the same amount into additional facilities, which I will mention shortly, it would make a difference. We should have a pyramid of issues that we should consider. On the first step would be the question of literacy, which the inspector has considered and which every report on prisons ever published has mentioned. While I know some of them are involved at the moment, what would it cost to appoint a small number of adult literacy educators on a structured and full-time basis and see whether it works?

We need to consider skills training for prisoners. I do not see why people cannot serve an apprenticeship while in prison. Why could they not do that and learn something? When such people came out of prison, they could actually work for themselves. They would not be looking for a job as they could do work. It is appalling and I wish the Minister of State agreed with this point. For the Inspector of Prisons to say that the prison library should be open more often than at weekends is terrible. The argument may be that there is little demand, but while it is not available, there will be little demand. One follows on from the other and encourages people.

A certain type of prisoner will use a facility like the Open University, and such a prisoner should be facilitated in every way possible. There is also the question of games training. There are pitches for games and so on. I know from 20 years of teaching and from a life spent dealing with people, that everyone has a skill of some description. If such a skill was discovered, it could make all the difference in the world. If an artistic skill or skill at games was discovered in a prisoner to be used in life outside prison, it would create a sense of confidence and success which might pull people away from recidivism.

Senator Henry made a point about family support for prisoners. They should be reassured that there is some level of counselling support for their families and their children. The Inspector of Prisons spoke about having access to facilities where the prisoners can meet their children in some sort of respectable area if they are visiting. That can be difficult at times due to security problems.

The transition period has to be dealt with very sensibly. The Prison Service should be allowed to talk to the public. Ordinary people do not understand the importance of day release. They think it is something that should not be done and never give a moment's thought to the impact of having someone locked up for a number of years who is suddenly let out to fend for himself. Day release is an important part in the transition period from prison to the world outside. It is as important for us as it is to the prisoner.

I am happy to second the motion. I ask that someone take a serious look at the prison inspector's report. If there are things with which some people do not agree, let them say so, but let us establish an inspectorate and put in place the significant recommendations in the reports.