Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State and I welcome the opportunity to speak on this motion tabled by the Labour Party. This is a most complex and difficult subject to speak on tonight both as a politician and as a Donegal man. Before dealing with the detail of the motion and the findings of the Morris tribunal, I wish to mention some of the personal human tragedies that were the outcome of what happened in Donegal.

The members of the Barron family feel they were abominably treated by the State. They feel disgusted and dismayed by the entire procedure. Second, I wish to refer to the McBrearty family and their quest for justice. I agree with Senator McCarthy that without the good offices and the political bravery of Senator Jim Higgins and Deputy Howlin and the voice of Councillor Seán Maloney, who has now retired from politics, the McBrearty family's quest for justice would not have ended in such a positive fashion. However, as far as the McBrearty family is concerned, this is not over. As a family they have their own personal dealings to sort out as well as being part of this overall human tragedy. We should also consider the wives and children of the gardaí who are caught up in this mess. It is a tragedy that these people are caught up in this debacle. I find it difficult to speak on this as a Donegal person.

Many of the findings of the Morris tribunal are based on the unpublished Carty report and some people in the legal fraternity have a difficulty with that. If we are trying to establish an ombudsman and an accountable structure within the Garda, why is the Carty report not yet published? Why have the findings which the Morris tribunal has taken from that report not been published? Why has the Nally report not been published? If we are seeking accountability and transparency, that should be part of the debate.

There is a perception of Donegal gardaí in places such as Kerry, Cork or Dublin. Some Members will have personal connections to the Garda. I have such a connection in that my brother is a garda based in Dublin. If one mentions that one is a Donegal garda, one is confronted with a simple and dangerous perception — that Donegal gardaí equal corruption. It is not simply a case of saying that 99.99% of the gardaí are honest and 0.01% are dishonest. We are dealing with the dangerous 100% perception that Donegal gardaí equal corruption.

Let us examine the culture in Donegal. The Morris tribunal is dealing with corruption on the part of some members of the Garda in Donegal. These actions cannot be condoned and for a long time they will do untold damage to the Garda as a force. I do not have time to examine the culture of the gardaí in Donegal but it is true that there was a culture of staying quiet. It was a culture based on fear, the fear of being transferred and of losing out on promotion. It was based on the gardaí thinking of their families. That fear was endemic. However, it is not unique to Donegal but is an institutionalised state of fear in every county because there is an unaccountable Garda authority. We are trying to legislate for a more accountable and transparent authority that will apply from Malin Head to Mizen Head, not from Malin Head to Ballyshannon or Bundoran. There is still no justification for the behaviour of some of the gardaí in Donegal because lives have been ruined, regardless of whether people are vindicated and whether the truth will come out.

The terms of reference of the Morris tribunal must be extended to the role of Ministers, Attorneys General, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Garda Commissioners. These were the end point of the institutional system in place so that is where the buck stopped. There must be an extension of the terms of reference of the tribunal. Mechanisms must be put in place to protect the citizen and good gardaí. There are good gardaí who will end up in this mess as a result of an improper system.

I will conclude on that note. I found this a difficult subject on which to speak. I do not feel embarrassed as a Donegal man or that people who have close relationships with gardaí should be embarrassed. However, there is a serious challenge before us as a result of lives being ruined and as a result of a negative, damaging perception that will do untold damage to the force in the long run. Ultimately, the challenge for legislators is to consider two families, the Barron and McBrearty families, whose lives have been ruined and who still have not found closure following the death of Richie Barron.