Maurice Hayes (Independent)

I am grateful to Senators Jim Walsh and Cummins for their kindness on this matter. I wish to be associated with the sympathy extended to the Minister and his wife expressed by Senator McDowell.

I remember when the Patten report was published and was discussed in this House. I suggested there were lessons to be learned in this jurisdiction, to the derision of the then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I was assured that the Garda Síochána did not need these measures and that there was absolutely no need for a Garda ombudsman. Times have changed. It is no longer recalled that an intrinsic element of the Sunningdale agreement was that two police authorities would be established in Ireland — one in Northern Ireland and one in the South. While the Northern Ireland authority was set up, the other one was quietly forgotten about.

If there had been an agreement at that time to establish a commission, as suggested in the motion, three or four years ago when the Patten report came out, I would have supported it. I fully agree with and support the diagnosis that has been made up to now by the proposer and seconder of the motion. I would, however, have reservations about starting the process now. We spent a year working on the Patten report and the Northern Ireland Office took a year to respond. It took the best part of another year to draft the Bill so it was approximately four years later before one got things in place. I do not think we can wait that long to modernise Garda management as a result of the Morris report.

I wish to join with Senator McDowell in thanking Mr. Justice Morris for his report. The way in which he has uncovered matters is impressive and he has marshalled his arguments meticulously in clear and unambiguous language.

The Garda Síochána Bill provides, in embryonic form, for most of the necessary structures. The Morris report has produced an enormous engine for Garda reform and it would be a pity to lose the force of that. There is a wind behind it, along with a political will and public outrage arising from what people have read in the Morris report. If the matter is left to lie for a while, it might be more difficult to get the impetus for change going again. I still have reservations about parts of the Garda Síochána Bill so I hope the Minister will use whatever window of opportunity he has between now and the ending of that procedure, to take into account the more salient recommendations of Mr. Justice Morris in order to incorporate them into the legislation, even at this late stage. It would be a great help if he did so.

As has already been stated, the Bill is not all about structures — it also concerns culture and management. More than anything else, it is about leadership. Mr. Justice Morris disclosed a scandalous state of affairs in Donegal and, at this stage, I am quite content to allow the individuals concerned to be pursued through disciplinary procedures or the criminal courts. There is evidence of a clear systemic failure — or even a lack of systems — in addition to a failure of leadership. The greatest resource of the Garda Síochána is the people in it, who deserve to be cherished, led and encouraged in their endeavours. What is occurring can do nothing whatsoever for the morale of the force.

Garda training was mentioned earlier in the debate, but I would take training out of Templemore immediately.