David Norris (Independent)

Perhaps the Cathaoirleach might let me know when I have spoken for half the allotted time.

I agree with those who have said this was a remarkable piece of reporting by RTE. It took a great deal of technical ingenuity using a small camera, whether in a tie pin or whatever. The visual image was very clear. The sound was also quite good. It was remarkable. That is what I call real investigative journalism. We sometimes hear people talk about investigative journalism and really what they mean is snooping into the sex lives of pop stars and so on. I do not regard that as investigative journalism, but I regard this programme as good investigative journalism because it highlighted a situation which needs to be addressed and brought it to the attention of the public and the Government.

I learned a great deal from the programme. I have had elderly relatives and connections in homes. My aunt, whom I absolutely adored, went into the Alexandra Guild House. It nearly closed but with the assistance of colleagues here I managed to put forward a programme to rescue it. Some 30 old ladies were given the stability of continuing to live there. It is a wonderful place. They do their own home baking. The staff absolutely adore their patients. It was a home in the sense of being a place where a community lived. I enjoyed going there. However, I know that people are afraid of the idea of a nursing home because they fear the sinister elements surrounding such homes. My aunt lived to the age of 103. She had very little wrong with her until, at the age of 102, she fell and broke her hip. She was transferred to a State facility. I do not want to completely blame the people there because they are under great pressure but my aunt almost immediately developed a bed sore. It was only when she got back to the Alexandra Guild House that the staff there cured it.

I believe people develop such sores because there is such pressure on the nursing profession that they are not able to do what they are required to do. Elderly people can be quite intractable sometimes. Many of the people in these homes are confused and a little contrary. The nurses should turn such patients every three hours and so on but with the pressure they are under they do not do so, and I am sure about that.

In light of my experience, I agree it is important to inspect private nursing homes because this is to where our attention has been drawn but it is unacceptable that there is no inspection of the State nursing homes and there should be. In the case of private nursing homes, inspections are supposed to be carried out twice a year but they are not.

Some time ago I raised a matter on the Adjournment brought to my attention by a person in my neighbourhood who cherished his mother who was put into St. Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park. Her son complained about the conditions in that hospital. I wrote a snotty letter to the director of that hospital and I got a snotty letter back and, as often happens in my life, that was the beginning of a friendship. The director said that if I was so interested in this issue, I should show some realism and come out to see the staff there. I said "What a good idea, I will". I went out and had a look and I have to say I admire the medical professionals, the nurses, the physiotherapists, the occupational therapists and so on who work in these disastrous conditions. They are absolutely awful. In one place there were leaks from a converted swimming pool. There was one lavatory for two wards. In such circumstances, how can facilities be kept clean? In those circumstances, I pity the staff as much as the patients. Some of the patients were quite happy and they were looked after as well as possible but some of them were clearly distressed.

As a friend of James Joyce, an old lady whom I knew in Zurich said to me, "David, age is a cage; it is not always attractive". One is very lucky if, like my aunt, one keeps physically well, mentally alert and emotionally balanced. Many people do not. They are confused, feel threatened and think they are not able to afford to stay in these places. They are worried about their meals and their families. I know of cases where one can visit a patient and ten minutes later receive a call in one's car — as was the case with another relative of mine — to inquire why one had not been in to see that person in a fortnight. These people are confused and difficult. They need our care as much as possible.

There are not enough inspectors and they do not have proper powers. What is the point in inspecting if there is nothing one can do? The only point of having inspectors is if they are able to impose a sanction. The two sanctions that should be available are the power to close a nursing home or the power to impose a fine. Some of these places can well afford to pay such a fine. I read in a newspaper today that Leas Cross was doing all right. It made a profit of something like €60,000 and last year it made a profit of €500,000 on foot of a grant.

I listened to a radio programme yesterday and was interested to hear a woman who rang in who was a member of the staff of that nursing home. She said she was horrified by the programme. Maybe I am gullible but I believed her. She said she was in a different unit and absolutely loved her elderly patients. She sounded sincere. It may be that even within that nursing home there are different levels of care.

I mentioned the problem of bed sores which I also mentioned the other day. I thought that developing a bed sore was inevitable after a certain age but this is not the case if a patient is turned in bed and so on. A connection of mine, a Hungarian lady, got one of these awful things and I thought it was inevitable but it was not. We need to make some further degree of investment in this area to protect people whose number we may, if we are lucky, join and we will expect our successors in this House to look after our interests.

I noticed one of the rather unpleasant nurses who was pushing his fingers into a patient's face, shouting at her and making inappropriate remarks and so on — his behaviour was not such that it could be described as criminal, it just seemed to be terribly unpleasant — but he was continually referred to as a Filipino. That is not fair because there are many wonderful, kind, gentle and good Filipino nurses. Our hospital system would be swept away without them.