David Norris (Independent)

Yes. As a former teacher, it seems to me that a continuous assessment would be a good idea. Having a review at the end of three or five years is not the best way to do it. A process of continuous assessment from the beginning gives a far better chance of reaching down into the consequences of the Bill and finding out what happens.

Part 3 is the most significant element of the Bill, as it deals with access to services, public buildings and so on, as well as the sectoral plans. We must arrive at a situation where disability becomes a prime factor in Government policy and is factored into every Department. Someone in each Department should be charged with responsibility to enforce such a policy. Perhaps it should be the General Secretary.

In a briefing Senator Quinn and I had with disability groups yesterday, we were told that €38 billion is spent on health services and people with disabilities get around 3% of that which is roughly proportional to their size. However, they made the point that they are excluded from many of the services provided for everybody else by virtue of their circumstances which could be remedied without a huge amount of expense. The Government has taken a practical view on this, which is understandable, but one which is open for us to challenge. Many people fear that a financial haemorrhage from a rights-based Bill could affect the Exchequer. They also fear that it would be left to the courts to deliver services.

Many people talk about rights — I have been talking about them all of my life. I have come to the conclusion that rights are of no use unless one is in a position to exercise them. One can have theoretical rights, but unless there are practical mechanisms whereby one can obtain these rights, then they are of virtually no use at all.

I was listening to the radio last night and there was a very good programme about an awards scheme that was won by a group from the west of Ireland. The scheme dealt with disability. The students got themselves into wheelchairs and went around the town with their companions. They were helped consistently by members of the public, but those people never spoke to the people in the wheelchair. They always spoke to the person who was with the person in the wheelchair. The young girl interviewed made the point that she had a problem with her legs and not with her brain. This is why people need consultation and the Government has gone some way to meeting that need.

I listened to the programme "Outside the Box", presented by Olan McGowan who had an accident in his twenties and is now in a wheelchair. There was a discussion on disability and a woman representing the blind claimed that he should be able to play for Ireland or climb Kilimanjaro, only if it was made accessible. That is at the outer limit of political correctness and Mr. McGowan fortunately pointed out that we must live in the real world. We must attempt to imagine what the situation is like in human terms, so that we can be in a position to understand the desire for rights on the part of the disabled community. On the other hand, we also need to be realistic. The Government is moving to some extent in this direction.

I have a document in front of me from the Disability Federation of Ireland, indicating that it is aware that the legislation is coming before the Seanad. The document states:

If this legislation goes through without major changes, the DLCG and its member organisations will be left with no option but to reassess our future co-operation with the Government, Departments and agencies. We may also consider a nationwide campaign to alert the general public to the failure of the Government to meet our legislative needs.

The federation feels that the Bill needs to focus on two matters to ensure that people have timely access to the necessary specialist services and to ensure that what Ireland has to offer becomes fully accessible to people with disabilities.

We have not gone far enough in this Bill and I hope the Minister of State addresses some of the issues that have been brought to his attention by the Disability Federation of Ireland. He has included the Ombudsman in the Bill, but I am not sure if that is needed. It has been suggested to me that a disability commissioner is more appropriate. If the Minister of State accepted that, it would go a long way towards meeting the problems of the disabled community.