Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)

I thank the Minister of State for staying to take my Adjournment motion. I put the question to the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, but it was referred to the Minister for Finance. That is somewhat of a problem for the two Departments in terms of which of them deals with pensions. Will the Minister of State provide me with a breakdown of the €2.5 billion tax breaks enjoyed by the pensions industry? This figure was given to me by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs during the debate on pensions last year.

However, there was some confusion when the Minister came to debate the ESRI report on pensions, when he said the tax breaks amounted to €1.5 billion. I had to remind him he had told me earlier the tax breaks were to the value of €2.5 billion. It is important that we should know where these tax breaks are going. It is not the ordinary man or woman in the street who is benefiting from them. They are benefiting the better off in our society.

When we are discussing pensions and planning to make them compulsory, with no guarantee of a return on that money, it is critical that we look at who is benefiting from the tax breaks. I remind the Minister of State that at a time when many PAYE workers are being told by employers that their defined benefits schemes are being wound up or are under-funded and they are being encouraged to take out defined contributions schemes, those same employers are making enormous contributions to their own pension funds and gaining very significant tax breaks. Some of these directors are adding €1 million a year to their pension schemes, while telling employees that their pension funds are being wound up. Therefore, tax breaks as regards pensions are grossly inequitable in the way they are dealt with by the Government.

For some people tax avoidance schemes involving pensions are probably the most beneficial mechanism ever devised for reducing tax liability. This needs to be looked at and made more equitable, so everyone benefits from these tax breaks which should not be just accessible to the wealthy. Such people are well off. Many company directors are on very good salaries to start with. I am more interested in ensuring PAYE workers have decent pensions when they retire. I hope the Minister of State can tell the House who is benefiting from these tax breaks. I doubt whether he will name the people who benefit, but I would like him to. At any rate, I want to know which schemes are benefiting and to what extent. Can he put a figure on the amount involved?

As I told the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, if all those tax breaks were to be cancelled and the same money put into old age pensions, they could be doubled overnight for every worker in the country. That might not be in the best interests of everybody but the tax breaks as set up at present are not fair and I would like this to be addressed. I want the Government to be open and transparent as regards who is benefiting from these tax breaks.