David Norris (Independent)

It seems as if that is going down a very dangerous and speculative road. We have also heard, probably correctly, that Europe will not interfere through its courts and through policy direction in what are regarded coyly in this country as moral matters and that Europe will not give central direction on issues like abortion, divorce, etc. While that is true, I point out that in the early days in a very undemocratic way a small unrepresentative group in this country got a protocol about abortion in an EU treaty without reference to either House of the Oireachtas or the people. That was not a particularly democratic move. I believe there is a democratic deficit, which I believe will continue under this new treaty. It has been acknowledged that a certain level of decision making is being removed from the people and transferred to the Oireachtas under these provisions.

An esteemed former colleague, Mr. Crowley, MEP, is present. I was rather taken aback when I noticed that he and his party colleagues supported Mr. Buttiglioni. This refers to the European Union and I will say it.