Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

I wish to repeat the welcome we gave earlier to MEPs who have taken the time to come here today. I was interested to learn that two minutes is the speaking slot in Europe, so three times that is very good here in the Seanad. As I am fascinated by the debate, I intend to stay until the end. I am learning more about the constitution than I thought. I already have fertile ground for debate among my constituents, including for meetings and so on. So many interesting comments have been made.

One's belief in the constitution should be founded on passion about the idea of Europe. If one does not have that passion and philosophical belief in what Europe offers its citizens and member states, it is very difficult to become bureaucratic and deal with what appears a dull leaden book or debate, because it is not founded perhaps on the political passion of what has happened.

After the catastrophe of the Second World War the founding fathers of the European Union determined that there would never again be within their region that type of all-out war which led to such destruction. Sixty years later that determination persists. In recent months we have seen many pictures and re-enactments of that period on television, particularly on the anniversary of VE Day. Ireland was not involved but it is important to see what people went through and how quickly they re-built their countries after the war with a determination not to allow such destruction in Europe again.

We may not all believe in a united Europe and it is good that there are differing points of view. I do not get into a hissy fit because other people or parties may have different points of view. They are entitled to that view. It would be too bad if in this Chamber we did not allow the expression of differing points of view. I look forward to hearing them, as long as they are honest.

Previous speakers made many interesting points. I rather liked the point made by Proinsias De Rossa, MEP, that only 5% of the document is new and therefore to be absorbed anew. The balance of this large tome is based on the treaties of Rome, Amsterdam, Maastricht and Nice. It is realistic to expect us to grasp 5% of the document.

Senator Ross mentioned our economic miracle and asked why the rest of Europe is faltering economically when Ireland is not. A measure of our success may be based on social partnership which has been of great benefit and allowed Ireland to continue to develop. Social partnership is very close to the ideals of the European Union. By 2007 social partnership will have existed for 20 years.

Proinsias De Rossa, MEP, mentioned a coming of age and said that 45 years is like a passport. Armed with this passport and a "Yes" vote in the referendum on the European constitution, we will be truly citizens of Europe and entitled to be wherever we want to be.

Brian Crowley and Gay Mitchell spoke about the size of the constitution and Mr. Mitchell proposed his interesting ideas. Mr. Crowley said that to bring the common defence policy into play in the early stages of the debate on the constitution somewhat muddies the waters. That debate can be postponed and everyone can voice their opinions later.

My overriding concern is that there is a division in a large country such as France where even the might of President Chirac and the French Parliament find it difficult to sway the voters towards the "Yes" vote. The Government in the Netherlands is having similar difficulty in advance of its referendum which will follow the French one. People are right to have their doubts but if all the facts are in the open and there is an open and honest debate there is no place for fear.

The constitution was drawn up in an open and transparent way involving 200 public representatives from all the member states, as well as some bureaucrats and the Presidium. It is a miracle that a manageable solution was found, and we hope a similar miracle will happen and the constitution will be accepted.

I am extremely worried that despite the good will here regarding anything European, the diffuse nature of the debate makes it easy for people to say they cannot and will not understand the constitution and dismiss it. I accept the point made by Ms Harkin, MEP, that every house should receive a copy of the constitution. They should also receive a copy of our own Constitution because Article 29.4 gives the lie to any talk about the European constitution obviating our Constitution.

It is interesting for those of us listening to the Members of the European Parliament here today to learn how in some cases there is cross-party agreement on this matter. I denigrate nobody who holds a different opinion. How else could we manage a debate if we do not hear and deal with differing opinions?

I thank all the Members of the European Parliament for coming here today.