Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

That is something I intend to do soon.

The basic principle is that people of a certain age should be seen as a resource or asset and not as a problem. People over a certain age can make major contributions to this country because they are experienced and have often learned things the hard way. To lock such people into a passive pension area, and to insist they stay there and do nothing else, is not right.

Another issue of concern is that non-contributory pensioners who are in receipt of the basic State pension are taxed on that benefit if they attempt to earn any other income. I do not have any answers on this as yet and I am always attacked for thinking out loud. All I can say is that, in many cases, thinking aloud is better than not thinking at all. It is clear that if one is a non-contributory pensioner it means one has passed a means test and has no worthwhile means. A pensioner may be as fit as a fiddle but if he or she earns some extra money the State will start to mess with the annual State pension of €7,000. I am examining that situation, although I do not want to make any commitments because I do not know the extent of the problem or what costs are involved.

For example, 86,000 people are in receipt of non-contributory pensions at a cost of approximately €600 million. In addition, approximately 113,000 people are in receipt of contributory pensions at a cost of €1.9 billion. Overall, we spend €2.5 billion on both types of pension. It may be a coincidence, but it is interesting that this is exactly the figure we give in tax reliefs. One must take an overall view of that. Tax breaks are valuable and have contributed much to the growth in the economy, including the tourism sector. Senator Mansergh was right in saying that we must be cautious in dealing with tax relief and cannot treat it lightly.

A number of Senators referred to the issue of introducing mandatory provisions to the pension system and I was heartened to hear the open-minded opinions that were expressed. I have formally asked the Pensions Board to study that issue and to let me know of its thinking before September. The matter deserves to be studied.

Senator Ó Murchú said we should choose our language carefully in using words such as "compulsory" and "mandatory". While I accept his point in that regard, we should still examine the matter. In my own extended family, there are 20 year olds whose eyes glaze over when one discusses pensions with them. They have no interest in the subject whatsoever. I have discussed pensions with many young people, including my own family's friends. They are inclined to feel that if pensions were organised, tax deductible and affordable, they would be grateful years later for having exercised that option.