Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I would be cautious about going down the ESRI route. People have statistical arguments regarding equity and suggest, for example, that Germany is a more equal society than Ireland. They would like to return to 11% unemployment to have more equality. One must think about the macro-economic effects, which translate into human consequences. We are fortunate to have a very buoyant economy in which unemployment as of yesterday has reduced to 4.2%. We must be careful about doing something that will send us headlong into problems. That is why I have reservations about aspects of CORI's approach, Inchydoney notwithstanding.

One must also consider the level of equity. The head of the Combat Poverty Agency once said a little sadly that things were much better in 1986 and 1987, even though the unemployment rate was 18% because things were more equal than they became when we had a dynamic economy and full employment. There are uneasy trade-offs in this issue.

People who are able bodied and in reasonable health want to work and contribute, but not necessarily at the same intensity, after the age of 65. The trend of loosening and becoming more flexible in working arrangements has much to be said for it. Perhaps older people are a little like the student population in that they are anxious and willing to contribute on a part-time basis. People who supplement their incomes in that way should be encouraged given that they are needed. In these days of full employment, many shops and shopping centres might not have too much to do if pensioners were not available to staff them during the day. The income of the post-65 age group is an important factor in our economy. We naturally need to encourage people to provide for their income. Perhaps the tax system can be refined, building on the SSIAs, but there has not been a significant take up of PRSAs. However, exhortation, encouragement and, perhaps, incentive rather than compulsion are the way forward.