Shane Ross (Independent)

I would like to positively respond to a point made by Senators O'Toole and Terry. The ESRI report addressed a very important point. Senator O'Toole's point that the private sector was costing €1.5 billion in relief to taxpayers should be debated. This debate would address the pensions industry. It is very easy to say that €1.5 billion is being lost to the Exchequer, which is undoubtedly true in a very forensic way. However, we need to ask the Minister to address the question of who has their fingers in the pensions pie. The pensions industry is a complete racket involving bankers, brokers, fund managers, lawyers, consultants and all kinds of people making a fortune——