Mary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)

Senator Finucane raised the matter of the EU waste directive and the fact that the European Court of Justice has found against Ireland. The court has given us three months to tidy up our dumping facilities.

There is a great deal of hypocrisy surrounding this issue, though I am not referring to Senator Finucane specifically. The waste debate is hypocritical. I cannot see how we can continue to put our waste in holes in the ground and assume that is the end of it. This cannot be done. The waste pollutes the water and the atmosphere. We think we are virtuous if we have a green bin or if we use recycling facilities, that we have done our good deed for the day, but we may have only gotten rid of some bottles and papers. How can we continue to dig holes in the ground and dump sludge and dirt into them? How can we do that and think it will not smell? Everybody's waste smells. We must have a comprehensive debate and not allow room for people to say "Not in my back yard". If a proper site is found it must be used, whether it belongs to a Minister or to the Taoiseach — although it will not be the Taoiseach because he has a modest house and a modest garden.

Different methods of waste disposal are needed. A dump opened in Athlone 15 years ago, which is now coming to the end of its life. Five local authorities are dumping there at the moment. We do not want to face up to this problem. I agree with Senator Finucane that a debate on this would be useful, but I would urge Members to talk honestly about the issue. It is not useful to skirt around it. We must accept that we cannot simply make the holes in the ground bigger, allow the waste to increase and everything will be fine.

Senator Finucane also raised the issue of prison wardens and stated that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was adopting an aggressive tone. Perhaps the Minister simply wants the issue to be settled. I understand that negotiations have been going on for quite some time, quietly and successfully. We must await further developments on foot of those negotiations.

Senator O'Toole stated that our waste is being transported to undeveloped areas of China and Senator Maurice Hayes added that it is also being transported to parts of Fermanagh and Tyrone. Senator O'Toole also called for local referenda on the waste issue but county councils would not agree to that proposal. County managers now have the responsibility for decisions on waste disposal and there were bitter recriminations when that was introduced. We would be waiting forever if local politicians, or indeed national politicians, were charged with making such decisions. The suggestion that local people should have a say, through local referenda, will not work. People do not want waste facilities in their local areas.