Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

Fáiltím roimh an Aire agus na hoifigigh freisin. I agree with much of what Senator Mansergh said. He moved away from the debate slightly but spoke a good deal of sense. I could identify with many of the sentiments he expressed, something to which I will return shortly.

This legislation is both important and relevant for Ireland. That is underlined by the near unanimity with which it has been greeted in the House today. For the past years the aviation industry has been experiencing severe challenges to the point where major airlines have gone to the wall and where we have seen the merger of other airlines and partnerships between airlines. Those of us who have had the opportunity to travel appreciate the major progress made by the aviation industry and the streamlining that can take place but we still have to contend with the old bugbear, namely, the cancellation of flights. In the past few weeks, friends of mine experienced problems with three different flights in the USA, one of which was cancelled while the others were delayed for several hours. It is an issue which must be confronted.

Among the great difficulties in Ireland are the restrictions on subventions with which we are now faced. It is a question of an airline being viable in its own right. Aer Lingus has proved it is possible to come back from the rails and be competitive. I have chosen to fly with Aer Lingus rather than with Ryanair or other low-cost carriers because I have a special respect and regard for the airline which has provided a quality service over the years. The service impacted in many ways on our image and economy. As the aviation industry is one of the tools of tourism, it is important that Irish airlines can access capital when it is required. As a small country, Ireland has a smaller chance of accessing capital than larger countries. Banks will provide one with a loan to purchase a house or some land as they know the house or land will remain in position, but an aircraft is a different matter. An aircraft can travel outside the jurisdiction which raises questions for banks on how they can be sure they will be able to recoup any loans.

While it is important to make the provisions outlined to reassure lenders, we should not ignore the advantages for the aviation industry itself as they are paramount in the current climate. A great deal of hype and codology is published in the media by people setting out stalls though not as transparently as they pretend. Most of the people in question are not in the position, given their current assets, to buy the type of fleet to which they refer. One wonders if we can return to reality.

I do not seek to patronise the Minister when I say he is a breath of fresh air in his focus and decisiveness. Whenever he says anything decisive and focused, however, somebody will want to take a swipe at him. The swipe which has been taken in this instance has nothing to do with the welfare of the aviation industry in Ireland. If an extra terminal is required in Dublin, it should be a question of providing what is best. I return to what Senator Mansergh said about competitiveness. We throw such terms around like confetti at a wedding, but nobody ever defines what they mean. Speaking in this way is often an excuse for a lack of action and in place of ideas and vision. The debate is put off the rails and we lose opportunities and focus. We would do a great service if we were focused on what was required and approached the matter practically.

I remember a famous debate on the "Late Late Show" in which Monsignor Horan spoke about establishing an airport at Knock. Many bright people in politics at the time who could not identify with rural or provincial Ireland spoke of a boggy, soggy piece of land and asked how an airport could be made to work there. I can still remember Monsignor Horan's response that his airport would cost no more than one DART carriage provided and maintained for Dublin. If one looks at the cost of putting infrastructure in place, one will see that he was quite right. Monsignor Horan's vision has worked not only to provide an airport but to regenerate an entire region. The people of Britain can fly from Luton to Ireland every weekend and be part of the nation. It has given them the opportunity to spend their money here and help the economy. It is exactly the spirit we require in approaching the larger picture of Dublin Airport and the Irish aviation industry. There is no difficulty in securing consensus in the House on legislation like the Bill before us because smaller, peripheral issues are not being allowed to distract us from our main focus. I wish we could adopt the same approach in discussions of the national interest.

I am not against private ownership and, indeed, would probably be a communist if I were. However, there are times when the national interest is best protected by public ownership. I will not spell out the principle in great detail, but it is one of the reasons Aer Lingus gave us the best service it could. While I am not against low-cost airlines, I hope we are not moving toward a scenario in which all carriers operate in that way. The nature of the services on board low-cost airlines in a climate of affluence will create problems. One is hardly on board some of the aircraft involved before one finds oneself buying a ticket, bottle of orange or soggy sandwich. Soon one will have to pay for oxygen if one must use it. While I accept the need for low-cost airlines, they should not lead to the elimination of quality services which people want and can afford. Without the Bill, competitors will not be able to approach the market to secure the money required to put a new fleet into the air and sustain their businesses.

Senator Ryan spoke to the reference in the protocol to space assets. It caught my attention also and I am sure the Minister will refer to it in his closing statement. I am a little paranoid at times about some of these issues, including the war in Iraq. When I looked at the Cape Town Convention first, I did so positively. I am happy it is good for Ireland and delighted it is being incorporated today. I seek always, however, to establish what the small print says. While I do not think the international registry will mean we are dominated, the reference to space assets worried me slightly. I would like it to be spelt out whether we are dulling the line between the commercial and the military. It would not be good for the aviation industry or smaller countries like Ireland if we were to do so.

I do not see any difficulty with the type and number of countries involved. If some of them are developing nations, I would like to be in partnership with them. I have seen that most countries which have moved beyond the initial problems of development are full of energy, enthusiasm and vision like Ireland was in the 1950s and 1960s. Developing countries are prepared to work hard to make their economies a success. Our standing and expertise, which is evident in the way we won the competition to secure the site for the international registry, can help those countries.

The Minister is on the right track and I wish him well. We are lucky to have him. We have had one debate in the House on the domestic aviation industry and I hope we can return to the matter as things develop.