Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

I thank Senators for their contributions. One of the most important conclusions drawn in this report is that there was nothing wrong with the State's practice of making deductions from persons in long-stay, free residential care. There is a recognition running through the report that it was a proper and appropriate practice.

In his report Mr. Travers recognises the enormous financial constraints that operate in the Department of Health and Children. As a result of discussions in this House, every Senator is also aware of those constraints. Whether by way of Adjournment motions, statements or debates on substantive motions, Senators frequently raise issues concerning the Department's provision of health and social services in their areas and elsewhere. I have always found that Senators have a keen awareness of their national responsibilities, in addition to their knowledge of local conditions. In that context, this was an entirely reasonable practice for the State to engage in as regards the provision of nursing home care. After all, many people have to contribute from their own resources, and do so gladly and willingly, for the care of older persons who require residential care. No question of compensation for those persons has arisen in this entire saga.

The question must be asked as to why legal doubts about a practice that has existed in the State since 1954 were not dealt with earlier within the Department of Health and Children. That is what the Travers report is all about. While much has been said, it is the function of Opposition Senators to raise questions about political issues. That is understandable and I do not take from their right to do so. Senator O'Toole made a reasoned contribution in which he outlined the respective roles played by the leading parties involved in recent times. He laid certain facts before the House which would have to be taken into account by anyone who examines this matter dispassionately.

No political blame can be attached to either the Minister or the Ministers of State. As a minor historical footnote to this matter, I was not in a position to attend the meeting in question and, of course, I am recorded as apologising for my absence. Senators may also notice in the report that Mr. Travers was critical of the fact that the papers for that meeting were not briefed to the participants at the meeting until late in the afternoon of the day preceding it. In fact, I never saw the papers of the meeting because my private secretary had not been in a position to see me before the time of the meeting. She asked me if I wished to see them and I inquired of her whether any matters pertaining to my own delegated area of responsibility were in the papers. When she advised me that there were not, I indicated that I did not wish to see the papers.

Mr. Travers has captured well in his report the tremendous sense of the urgency of business in the Department. The Secretary General was a very diligent person who was unfailing in his courtesy. He was under tremendous pressure of work — the organisation of the EU Presidency lay ahead of him in the months following that particular meeting. That was a substantial operation which we all know brought great credit on the country. The Department of Health and Children had to play its part in the organisation of a huge number of visits to Ireland, which related to its area of responsibility.

In addition, the Minister and the Government had decided to embark on a widespread programme of health reform, grounded on a number of reports which had been under public discussion. Apart from that, there is the constant sense of crisis and constraint in the Department and, as Senator O'Rourke said, the scarcity of resources. A famous economist once said that a proper definition of economics was the science of allocating scarce resources. In a sense, in the Department of Health and Children — more than in any other branch of Government — that is what public administration is all about. We cannot do enough for the handicapped, our public hospital services or primary care. In the area of my responsibility, we cannot provide enough social services for those who are vulnerable in whatever respect, whether they are old, infirm, young or at risk from one of the many contingencies which afflict us in life. All of these matters fall within the province of the Department of Health and Children.

I thank Mr. Travers for his work. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children will examine the matter in greater detail but we must now apply ourselves to the issue outlined in chapter 6 of the report, namely, the required changes in practices and procedures which must now come into place in a radically-changed legal landscape. The Health Service Executive is not an "unelected quango" as Senator Ryan described it earlier, rather the body's chief officer is himself an Accounting Officer, which represents a radical change in the relationship between the Department and those who administer services on its behalf.

Any restructuring of the Department must take place in this context and must ensure that taxpayers, under the supervision of the Health Service Executive, get maximum value for money and return for their services. We must also reconcile the designing of a service plan from year to year with the essential political requirement to intervene where difficult issues arise to ensure that a rapid response takes place on the part of the Executive. These are the issues which must inform our debate.

We must also address the issue, raised by Senators during the course of the debate, of how we deal with the Supreme Court's advice to the President that the legal entitlements of those who were not paid are recognised. In this respect, I do not speak on behalf of the Department but I have grave reservations about the consequences of the Supreme Court's judgment. However, we have received the judgment and must deal with it and address the issues arising, notwithstanding my grave reservations. As I stated earlier, the science of economics and the administration of this Department is about the allocation of scarce resources. A significant amount of scarce resources will be pre-empted in meeting our obligations, which I accept, on foot of the decision of the Supreme Court.