Sheila Terry (Fine Gael)

I am very disappointed the Minister has not taken the amendments on board. I do not accept that the current provisions offer consumer protection and the Minister knows this well. There is evidence that consumers are not protected and, hence, they are voting with their feet and not taking up products offered by the pensions industry.

The Minister mentioned the preservation of pensions and I acknowledge that an improvement was made in the Pensions Act 2002 but pre-1993 pensions were not preserved. They should have been taken into account. Thousands of people aged 55 and over have been drawing their pensions since before 1993 but the pensions were not preserved. These people paid into their pension schemes for years. The Minister should not mention the preservation of pensions because it has only been dealt with in recent years and the pensions of many people have not been preserved.

Pension companies were permitted to take pension holidays by the Pensions Board during good times when their funds were in surplus but that has affected the underfunding of many pension schemes nowadays. I do not know whether that is still going on but I presume it is not because most schemes are underfunded. The pension schemes of the top ten companies in Ireland are underfunded to the tune of €3 billion. I fail to understand how the Minister cannot accept that more needs to be done to protect the consumer.

Last week the Minister provided interesting statistics. He stated the Exchequer gave €2.5 billion in tax relief on occupational pension scheme contributions last year while the non-contributory cost was €2 billion. Where is the value for money in that relief? The Minister should consider what could be done with €2.5 billion. The pensions industry is not paying back in kind for this relief. The Government would be better off not providing tax relief and paying individual pensions. Perhaps this should be examined. I am far from being an economist. I am a housewife, but I know that it is bad value for money. It must be examined and addressed. I ask the Minister to do so here in a few simple measures to bring the pensions industry to order and ensure that the consumer is protected.

The figures with which the Minister provided me last week are shocking. He should not be able to stand over them and say that we will continue in this way. Neither the taxpayer nor the person with the occupational pension scheme is getting value for money. The pensions industry and the fat cats are getting fatter. We know that those in this country's top companies will ensure that millions are put by and ring-fenced for their pensions, but who cares about the PAYE worker? The Minister should care and ensure that something is done.

I have the greatest confidence in IFSRA and would like to see it more involved in the pensions industry. I hope that it will be given the opportunity to do so. However, it does not have a great degree of responsibility for the pensions industry, which falls to the Pensions Board. I have more faith in how IFSRA is carrying out its work. It seems a very independent body which does not take sides but steers a middle way to get results for the consumer. I hope that the Minister will be able to address some of the queries that I have put to him and reconsider accepting my amendments on Report Stage.