Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

I assure Senator Terry that I have been very impressed by the way the Department has dealt with cases of overpayment. Staff have made it clear to me that the person concerned is consulted directly or indirectly in all cases. Regarding the example of a pensioner cited by Senator Terry, that person would be consulted at some level and a suitable repayment schedule that would meet his or her individual requirements would be agreed. We will certainly continue this sensitive approach to the issue of overpayments, particularly in the very small number of cases where the overpayment was a result of a mistake by the Department. Regardless of how the overpayment came about, that sensitive approach to repaying overpayments will continue to be used.

Both Senator Terry and I are coming from the same place in our opposition to social welfare fraud. As I said earlier, I am reluctant to send out the wrong signal. In 2004, we hauled back €386 million through our anti-fraud and control measures. More than 100 people work in the control and anti-fraud section of the Department. In 2004, we took back €120 million in fraudulent unemployment payments, €110 million on fraudulent one parent family payments, €18 million in fraudulent child benefit payments and €55 million in fraudulent illness payments. More than 300,000 reviews were undertaken and from these reviews, €386 million was recovered. Imagine what €386 million could do for some of the cases with which the Department has to deal. I acknowledge that Senator Terry and the Deputies who promoted this amendment in the other House are acting in good faith in seeking a balance between the client and the Department. I want to reassure them that the balance is on the side of the individual at the moment. I would prefer not to send any signal, however inadvertently, that we were anything other than ruthless in dealing with social welfare fraud or as Senator Cox put it so well "stealing from social welfare". This practice is just unacceptable.