Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

This is a difficult area. Any payment made to somebody who is unemployed — one has to be unemployed to get the rent allowance — could be called a disincentive. One could incentivise anyone fairly quickly by taking away his or her payments. He or she would get up the next morning with a great incentive but that would not be fair. I do not think Senator O'Meara is suggesting we do that.

The rent allowance is available to everybody who is unemployed or needs accommodation, not just lone parents. It is a good scheme that is much appreciated by lone parents and others who need it. Senator O'Meara is correct in that if one takes a step towards employment, this can lead to a fear of losing one's security in terms of rent allowance and other payments. The disregard has increased to €146 and €293, respectively, at the minimum and maximum levels. It could be argued that those levels should be altered. We keep them constantly under review.

The issue is clear but the solution is not that easy. What most people tell me when I call to their doors is that the solution is to allow people to keep their benefits for as long as possible while working or in education. I accept that. It is not simple to administer that, rather it is difficult because one has to reach a fine point where employment or education takes over and one will then be full-time in one system or the other, as opposed to being in both systems. What does one say to people who are in employment when they say they have a job but would like to get welfare as top-up money? The issues and the administration of the system are difficult but I am clear about the direction. I look forward to working with the Department and listening to whatever advice comes my way about how we can break out of some of these cycles.

Rent allowance may be payable where someone is employed on a part-time basis but it is totally ruled out for full-time employment. I accept what Senator O'Meara said. She suggested a similar approach to my own, which is to provide plenty of incentives but not to create disincentives in the system. We could take away the rent allowance tomorrow but I do not think either of us would suggest that as it would not help anybody.