Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the House and commend my colleague Senator Cummins on his initiative in undertaking the great task of publishing a Private Members' Bill and doing all the necessary research thereon. It is amazing to hear the hypocrisy of the Government. Only two and a half years ago, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform indicated he was willing to examine this area and rectify the anomaly that exists, yet the Government side will vote against this Bill tonight. While I appreciate that the Government might have difficulty with some minor aspects of the Bill, these could all be teased out on Committee Stage. However, it is shooting down the Bill at the very first hurdle.

In June 2000, an interdepartmental group issued a report reviewing the Gaming and Lottery Acts of 1956 and 1986. These Acts are clearly out of date. The group recommended that 18 years be the age at which one can bet at the State tote. I have a difficulty with this age and believe it should be reconsidered. I would prefer if it could be examined on Committee and Remaining Stages rather than being shot down on Second Stage.

We have clear regulations prohibiting the sale of cigarettes to people under 16. We clearly prohibit the sale of alcohol, both in off-licences and pubs, to those aged under 18 and we clearly prohibit the placing of bets at racecourses through bookmakers, yet the tote is completely unregulated. The Minister must agree that this should not be allowed to continue.

Senator Cummins mentioned the negative consequences of gambling at an early age. All Members automatically assume that teenagers or young children place bets of €1 or €2 but I wonder how correct we are in this assumption. It would be interesting to have the relevant statistics.

It is obviously quite dangerous for youths to get into the habit of gambling, especially when they do not have money. It is dangerous enough even for adults, many of whom have destroyed their lives as a result. This is a common sense Bill in that it plans to introduce regulations in this area and remove an anomaly. It is obviously very difficult for the Senators and Deputies from the Border counties, such as Senator McHugh, to witness one rule applying in Donegal, for example, and an altogether different rule applying a few hundred yards across the Border.

The Bill deserves more attention from the Government. Two weeks ago, we noticed that Senator Norris had put considerable work into his Private Members' Bill. It required years of work but the Government kicked it to touch, fudged the issue and, in doing so, destroyed the very purpose of parliamentarians. The purpose of parliamentarians is to legislate, yet when two Members on this side of the House take the initiative to bring forward legislation, the Government's immediate reaction is to torpedo it and ensure it gets no further. It is disingenuous on the part of the Government to vote against this Bill on Second Stage and not allow it to proceed to further Stages, in which the complicated issues involved could be teased out.

Senator Cummins referred to the link with crime, including theft from employers to finance gambling. We are very familiar with such cases in the newspapers and I am sure they only represent the tip of the iceberg. People are obviously incurring considerable debts and suffering from damaged relationships with family and friends as a result of gambling. In some cases, they commit or attempt to commit suicide.

This issue was debated in 1997, at which time the Members of the Dáil were written to on the subject. Almost half of them indicated that they supported a ban, eight were against it and 37 were unsure. I am sure a similar ratio obtains today. It is quite clear there is considerable unease and disquiet. The public and Members of the Dáil would like to see some work being done in this area. It is regrettable that the Government will not even look at Senator Cummins's Bill or table amendments on Committee and Report Stages.

The issue involved is quite simple and yet complicated in its own way. We cannot allow young children to place bets at an unregulated State-run tote while banning them from doing so at bookmakers and banning them from buying cigarettes and from purchasing scratch cards worth €1 through the national lottery. The age issue needs to be reconsidered. The recommended age of 18 might be too old. I would prefer to see a restriction on those under 14. This could be achieved during Committee and Report Stages if the Bill is allowed to proceed. It is very regrettable that the Government has sought to knock this very worthwhile Bill, which has already provoked considerable debate in the House.

Senator Leyden certainly made very little sense in his contribution. If we were to follow his logic, we would allow children to buy cigarettes in shops and alcohol in pubs and off-licences. We clearly do not allow this, for very good reason. The same principle should apply in the case of gambling. Many families affected by the scourge of gambling will not thank this Government in due course.

It is unfortunate that the Government has tried to portray the Opposition members as killjoys when in fact they are fully in favour of people enjoying themselves at race meetings. I regularly go to my local racecourse in Gowran and believe the Cathaoirleach and the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism have also been there quite a few times. I have not seen the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government in attendance but perhaps he will attend on a later date. We are able to enjoy ourselves but we are also aware of the serious damage gambling does to families. That is why it must be controlled and regulated. The Government should reflect on and support this Bill, and if necessary bring forward changes on Committee Stage as it does with every other Bill. It is rare that the first draft of a Bill is perfect.