Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)

I would need more than five minutes to deal with some of the myths that have been trotted out in the House today. I will deal only with the major ones.

No issue has been handled more dishonestly in political debate than incineration. It is simply dishonest for any politician, irrespective of where he or she comes from or the identity of his or her party, to suggest that we can somehow magically deal with the waste issue without talking about combined heat and power. It is simply dishonest because no country in Europe with a good environmental record has done so. It is also dishonest because the very councillors, Senators and Deputies who make the argument against combined heat and power would be the very first people to argue against landfill.

Senator Mansergh is absolutely correct in stating that landfill is a filthy way of dealing with our waste. Even if Senator Cox is correct that Galway City County diverted, through recycling, 57% of waste — that is a tremendous achievement by the people of Galway — 43% of waste still goes to landfill. I look forward to Senator Cox, or any other Senator, being the first to support me or somebody else if we say a landfill facility is to be created at a certain location. The same faces one will find to the fore in the dishonest debate on combined heat and power would also be to the fore in the debate against landfill.

I come from a county which has been defaced disgracefully by landfills, many of which have been established illegally. Landfill is the worst option, the last option. We should only contemplate putting inert material into landfill. The tragedy is that, because of political dishonesty, we are stuck with time bombs all over the countryside. We do not know the long-term consequences of dumping a large tonnage of waste into holes in the ground, but we do know that the lives of people who live near those dumps have been made a misery. I am acutely aware of this because of what is happening in my county. We also know that aquifers will be destroyed. If an aquifer is destroyed, it will take generations to cleanse it.

It is not just the Government parties that have made a positive contribution to this debate. In this regard, I must give credit to Fine Gael on its Plan for the Nation of January 2000. It reads, "We must open our minds to a future which involves incineration as an integral part of a waste management strategy". It also states that "properly located, operated and monitored high-temperature incineration can be consistently operated over very long periods with no significant pollution". That is a truthful statement. The 2001 Labour Party policy document on waste states the strategy would not rule out thermal treatment, that is, incineration, or residual waste after segregation. That is also a truthful statement. Any politician who suggests we can continue to operate blithely, as we are now doing, is not being straightforward.

Another issue that has arisen for debate in recent times, that of the national waiver, has not been dealt with particularly truthfully. It was almost dealt with disingenuously. In the history of local government in Ireland, there has never been a policy under which central Government took charge of waste from all over the country. It would be wrong for it to do so. Over the years, central Government has been accused, rightly and consistently, of far too much interference in local government. If there ever was a quintessentially local policy, it is that of dealing with waste. It is up to local authorities to determine how they should deal with the need for a mitigation of the cost of introducing a waste charge.

I agree with Senator Mansergh that there is an incredible amount of political dishonesty on the extreme left, such that it is suggested that waste can be magicked away. I expect more from politicians from more sensible political parties. Local authorities can, if they so wish, run their own bin services. Most of them have pulled out of doing so for all sorts of obvious reasons. Where they do run bin services, they can operate waiver systems.

I do not wish to focus on Senator Bannon's remarks in particular, but I must state that the Fine Gael and Labour Party group in the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council recently introduced a new and very ingenious system of charging. It is one of the most complex systems but, ultimately, it will probably be adopted by many other local authorities. The council actually made a reduction in respect of the waiver system. A national politician in the Lower House, not from Senator Bannon's party, called for me to intervene when his colleagues in his council had actually made a reduction in respect of a waiver system. A little political honesty would go a long way in these debates. Even where local authorities are not the providers of services, for example, in Bray and Limerick, it is possible with a little ingenuity to introduce some form of local service or waiver that mitigates the consequences of our position.

Several contributions were based on common sense. Senator Brady made the point that backyard burning, which is a feature of life and has been for many years, produces large quantities of dioxins. By contrast, all the incinerators proposed or in place would probably contribute an infinitesimal amount to pollution.

Senator Henry made a very thoughtful contribution which deserves longer consideration than I can give it now. Along with Senators Brady and O'Toole, she said political honesty in the debate is necessary. People must stop exaggerating the reality and say if we do not go in one direction what is the alternative? The tragic reality we must face is that there is no zero waste option.

We have a responsibility to those who elect us and look to us for political leadership, which we demonstrated in the case of plastic bags. When we showed political leadership the people responded magnificently, as they are doing in regard to recycling. The people are more than capable of taking sane decisions on such issues. I wish to have a calmer, more structured and focused debate on these issues. Above all, I want more political honesty in our debates on this matter.