Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)

On the same date, the former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, said the charges were accepted policy and that no one had said anything about it for 50 years. Deputy Martin owes an apology to the many people Senator Mansergh and many other speakers have mentioned. As Minister for Health and Children he was told about the problem but he walked away and washed his hands of it. When Ministers turn away from their responsibilities it is no wonder that circumstances like those in which we find ourselves arise.

Senator Norris said he heard people making complaints on radio. He said people had called into programmes to ask if they were entitled to what the Senator called a nest egg. The Senator said it was nasty to hear that the people in question were queuing for compensation in keeping with a compensation syndrome. I remind Senator Norris that the deductions were illegal and involved people who, in many cases, could ill afford to pay the charges in question. To suggest that the people who draw down the compensatory payment are seeking to acquire a nest egg will lead to circumstances in which people have no recourse but to take legal action to obtain a refund of illegal deductions. I agree with the Tánaiste that we should avoid the legal route if at all possible. I hope she administers the scheme quickly to avoid a scenario in which it is necessary for people to have recourse to the law to obtain refunds.

The example of a person who said he or she would return to a nursing home the refund he or she expects to receive was referred to during the debate. It is fine for someone who can afford it to take that step and I hope those who are of that frame of mind will do so to facilitate the upgrading of public hospitals to provide extra comfort to patients.

The Tánaiste failed to indicate whether the Minister for Finance was correct to say that the provision of compensation will inevitably lead to cuts. Can the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, clarify the matter? The Minister for Finance failed to specify whether the cuts would be made to the health budget or across the board, although he clarified matters somewhat after he realised his mistake when someone reminded him of the seriousness of his statement. If these funds must be found, will it result in cutbacks in the Department of Health and Children or across all Departments? The Tánaiste went on the record in December to say that it is administratively impossible to grant compensation to all. There is confusion in the minds of those entitled to a refund. Despite opportunities in both Houses, clarity has not been forthcoming from any Minister making a statement on the matter.

Situations arose where people were refused access to public hospitals and there was nowhere else for them to go but to the private hospitals. Senator McHugh and others have often mentioned the hardship experienced by families forced to sell their property, the home that they built up over the years, in order to finance such hospital stays. Hopefully we will get clarity from whichever Minister might take the responsibility. However, it is important that somebody provides clarity. As a result of the confusion, people and their representatives are going to their solicitors and saying, "Will you find out the details for us?" That is the start of the legal process which would be unnecessary if there was clarity from the Minister.

It is absolutely essential the former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, apologises for what he did, because he knew about it and walked away from the problem. He can possibly exonerate the Tánaiste and present Minister. He did not care about the hardship endured by so many and it is now time that he stood up and clarified the situation and apologised to those people——