David Norris (Independent)

I accept that. The Minister of State, Deputy Power, will act as an effective conduit of the views of the Seanad. I agreed with much of what Senator Glynn said.

Senator O'Toole suggested a tax credit, which is a good idea. I was involved in the rescue of a small old persons' home in Dublin. It had not been charging enough. It was run by a committee of well-intentioned people but they were not in touch with commercial realities and got into commercial difficulty. We went in and with the help of Ms Ann Byrne, former programme manager to Deputy Howlin, they received a subvention from the local authorities. Mr. Bob Joyce then put together a plan whereby people could gain tax relief by covenanting, which saved the place. Therefore, the idea is an extremely good one.

Governments are far too pusillanimous in respect of the Constitution in that they have never really tested the concept of the common good. In the present circumstances, if this was tested, the common good provisions would prevail.

I am interested in considering the welfare of elderly people, in which I now have a substantial vested interest. I congratulate the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, on taking up this job which is a poisoned chalice, although I am sorry she is not present to hear me say so. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, formerly described the Department of Health and Children as "Angola", a place where unexpected detonations occur from previously unsuspected landmines. Goodness knows, this has shown itself to be the case. However, even the ex-master of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street, who is very critical of the health service, when speaking on radio had words of praise for the Tánaiste and hoped she would be able to clear up the administrative difficulties. There is much waste in this area, which I have no problem stating. I am glad our benches are not trying to play political football with the issue.

I strongly support the Minister and understand why this situation existed. However, I have heard unpleasant things said on radio in recent days. Some people telephoned to say they believed they have an unexpected nest egg, although at least some of these people did not kill themselves looking after their elderly relatives. This is a nasty and avaricious way to behave. One repeatedly encounters the compensation issue. The first little breach is like blood in the water — then the piranhas come out. When listening to the speakers on radio the day before yesterday, I was reminded of the late John Kelly, when he inverted Joyce's phrase about Ireland being the old sow that ate her farrow and said that, nowadays, we are in danger of the old sow being devoured by her cannibal piglets. An element of this arises.

On the other hand, I listened with immense respect to a woman who telephoned a radio station. She and her elderly mother did not have much money and her mother was taken into care by the State. The woman stated she could never thank the institution's staff enough for the wonderful care her mother received. She had no intention of taking action against the State. I absolutely honour and respect that person. That is the way we should approach our society, although none of us really does. It is a body corporate. We take elements that may be of use. It would be a Swiftian irony if money was drained out of the health budget and this affected the most vulnerable people, namely, the elderly.

The pension serves to provide food, shelter and some small element of luxury and well-being. By taking people into care, the State provides the shelter and food. I do not know why people feel this should be done twice as a person in that situation is receiving the same advantage twice. There is a question mark in at least some circumstances in regard to action being taken against the State to recover money that was not intended for this purpose when it might be taken away from those in more vulnerable circumstances.

I will use this opportunity to record what I feel. I recently got into a bit of a controversy with a distinguished medical person. The security guard at my local supermarket was concerned about his mother's condition at St. Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park. I wrote the usual letter on his behalf and got a snotty letter back. Incivilities were exchanged for about a week before I replied saying that as we had finished our period of incivility, I would like to help in any way I could, if conditions were difficult.

I visited the hospital and found that its consultant geriatrician was a very decent man. I saw the circumstances in which staff, who are heroic, are working. They operate in a building which was not designed as a hospital but as a military academy, the Royal Hibernian Military Academy, before becoming a hospital for Army personnel in the time of the Free State. It was not designed as a hospital but is an 18th century building. There are many outlying buildings in the grounds, including two very fine churches, one Anglican and one Roman Catholic. However, the condition of the building is poor in some sections, although it is kept scrupulously clean. One of the rooms, for example, was a former swimming pool when it was the Army hospital. It was filled in with concrete but the roof of the building has collapsed. It is like a factory and there is evidence of rot. It is inappropriate.

On one ward, 30 patients were separated by dividers that did not go up to the ceiling, allowing perfect conditions for the spread of the winter vomiting bug through airborne infection. There was a pong that would blind Sinn Féin because there is only one lavatory for the 30 patients, which is not wheelchair accessible and has no hoists. Moreover, the windows are halfway up the walls, no doubt designed to stop the children in the Hibernian academy looking out during geography lessons. I cannot speak highly enough of the staff working in these conditions.

How lovely it would be for these elderly patients, at the end of their lives, to at least have a view of a park they may no longer be able to visit. Nonetheless, enormous strides have been taken. For example, Dr. Power has organised a minibus for those who do not have cars. If they can get to the gates of the Phoenix Park, they can telephone the minibus and it will go to the relevant gate and collect them. In addition, the patients have greenhouses. This is marvellous and really inventive because elderly and wheelchair bound patients can get their hands into the soil and watch plants grow, which gives them hope. However, they are hit again by the cap on staff recruitment in the Civil Service.

I am not against people receiving nest eggs. God knows I do the lottery every week and hope to get a huge nest egg. I cannot understand those who say €2 million is too much; it is not half enough, I could do with €4 million. However, I would hate to think that people in a mean-spirited way would seize the opportunity to profit from parents they did not support to the extent one would expect in terms of looking after them during their life. By so doing, they might take away from the necessary funding to revamp an institution where elderly people live in inappropriate circumstances.