Mary Henry (Independent)

I welcome the Minister to the House. She will certainly go home with food for thought, having had this report ripped apart. I also take issue with a fair amount of it. The first point with which I took issue was that the humanities and social sciences were totally disregarded, apart from subsuming the Irish Council for the Humanities and Social Sciences into Science Foundation Ireland, which was ridiculous. Having listened to Senator Mansergh, this is sending us into the area of American universities, which are research based with very little emphasis on learning and teaching the spirit of inquiry. I understand the complaints of Senator Cummins and others in regard to the way regional institutes of technology are to be denigrated so that they will do little more than teach technicians while keeping away from research. How can good staff be retained if this is the case, never mind that one cannot have tenure until one has worked in an institution for five years?

Ireland has made huge economic strides because far more people were involved in third level education, including far more women, who are now in the workforce. However, despite the free fees, we have not done well in getting people from lower socio-economic backgrounds into the workforce. I accept the free fees policy has only been in place for ten years and the Minister is right not to scrap it. However, it shows that for these areas of society we must invest far more at pre-school, primary and secondary level because if one does not get through those levels, one will not get to university.

An area to which reference was not made is the failure rates for some courses, with which I am very concerned. For some first year courses in universities, particularly science courses, failure rates are close to 30% and for some regional institutes are close to 50%. Overall, only 10% of those who go to university do not finish but this figure is as high as 30% for some institutes of technology.

I am glad Senator Ormonde, with her background in counselling, is present because this problem apparently arises due to students choosing the wrong courses. We need far more counselling of students at school because too often students who applied for various courses told me when they were successful that they did not know why they had applied for them. Students never consider that they might get their fourth choice. I am delighted with the idea of bringing in more international students, especially at postgraduate and post-doctoral levels. It is important to remember that we will be competing with some non-English speaking countries now running these courses in English. We must have a sufficient number of Irish graduates in disciplines such as medicine. Not even one third of the number required are graduating. All that is needed is money. There was not a single application for a consultant post in this country from a non-EU graduate recently.

Lifelong learning is incredibly important but we are currently paying it lip-service. People must be considered for part-time release from work if they are to upskill and progress in their industries. Having worked as a researcher, I am glad to see basic research promoted. During the debate on Science Foundation Ireland I nearly had to drop to my knees in search of information on this subject. Quoting the Scandinavian educationalist Skoie, "Squeezing research out of people that have no training, aptitude or inclination for it inevitably generates tensions." It is essential that the teaching and pastoral care of third level students are given importance.