Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister to the House. It is my first opportunity to wish her well with her new brief. I know, perhaps more than many, that she will do a very good job.

The OECD report on third level education represents a sort of brain-storming exercise. It is perhaps also a foundation for policy making. As the Minister said in her speech, it is something on which the future of higher education will be based. I compliment the team that produced the report because it made me reflect on what is involved. I would welcome another opportunity to discuss this report. I began reflecting upon it over the weekend along with other activities but my thinking is somewhat scrappy and I am not sure I have got it right in my own mind as to how the report's various recommendations should be handled.

I welcome the opportunity we now have to move third level education into the 21st century. The structure of tertiary education has not changed much over the years since I was in college, which was neither today nor yesterday. The governing bodies have not changed very much and neither have the heads of departments. The key recommendation on changing structures is a good starting point because when one implements any policy one must examine the existing structures. Unless those structures are altered, one will not have a fluid operation within the system.

The Minister is to establish a new tertiary authority, with policy-making and funding roles, which will incorporate the universities. The university sector has changed over the years. At one stage there was only the National University of Ireland. When Maynooth became a constituent college it comprised four universities. The Royal College of Surgeons is also part of the sector.

We started off with regional technical colleges, which became institutes of technology — a plethora of which have since been established all over the country. Within the past 25 years there has been a sea change in the development of third level education. Access to such education must now be re-examined. I am glad the tertiary authority is to be established as it will define the divisions between universities and institutes of technology.

The Minister is also establishing two committees to supervise the management of universities and institutes. However, there is to be only one chair, so I wonder how that will work. I am worried about whether it can work. Perhaps I have not read the report properly but that proposal appears to be somewhat clumsy.

The report recommended a reduction in the number of governing bodies and that their composition may change from 36 to 22 members. The report also recommended an emphasis on the non-academic membership of governing bodies but I am concerned about how such a change might be implemented. I am all for outside representation on governing bodies, which reflects the views of the public, but one also needs heads of departments to be represented. The balance between academic and non-academic staff in the composition of governing bodies must be right. I would like the Minister to clarify what she proposes by changing the numbers and composition of such bodies.

I agree totally that we should change the management structure relating to departmental heads whose role should rotate. Heads of university departments can often become staid in their thinking so opportunities should be provided for new people with experience and skills to enter the system and alter course content. I would welcome such movement in the composition of university departments and those of institutes.

In order to widen access to universities and institutes of technology, we must examine the three leaving certificate formats, namely, academic, vocational and applied. Some students may wish to improve their skills by attending a post-leaving certificate course. From there, they can progress to certificate and diploma courses before eventually obtaining a pass degree. The plethora of courses coming on stream is mind boggling.

Access to third level education must be examined in light of the participation of part-time students, the phenomenon of lifelong learning and the provision of structures for those opting for an indirect route to university. There is a knock-on effect involved in such developments. Students who try so hard to gain access to third level courses — sometimes sitting the leaving certificate four times — but fail to do so, should be allowed greater access to tertiary education. The Minister should examine that matter carefully to see what she can do about it.

The Minister is proposing the establishment of a new council because the institutes of technology are so fragmented. Courses are also duplicated and I am worried that in some places we will see courses in dish washing being offered. We should not take the route of some American colleges because I want to see courses on offer here with a high quality of content. From attending such courses students will be able to shape up and obtain access to degree courses. Postgraduate studies will also evolve naturally if the fundamental principles are correct. I would encourage that approach in order to harmonise courses offered by the institutes of technology, thus avoiding fragmentation. Such a development would involve not only the Department of Education and Science but also the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

As regards third level funding, we need to develop further the knowledge-based system which has boosted our economy over the years. The humanities must not be forgotten, however. I come from that background and I would hate to think that I would not be considered as good a manager because I did not have a degree in science and technology. I would like to think that the Minister will not overlook the humanities in her consideration of tertiary education.

There is a big challenge ahead but the Minister is able for it. As regards change, she must take into account the current composition of universities as well as the fragmentation of the institutes of technology. Business and community links must be developed also when it comes to providing funds for third level education.

The OECD report is a brain-storming exercise which has forced me to reflect on many current issues facing tertiary education. Before the Minister formulates any major new educational policies, I hope she will afford us the opportunity of debating them.