Marc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. Notwithstanding imminent talks and decisions in the Labour Court it is good to have this debate today, particularly in light of yesterday's four hour meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources with the unions and An Post. Like Senators Kenneally and Finucane, I am a member of that committee and attended the meeting yesterday.

Afterwards I tried to think of one positive point that emerged. I was still thinking about it as I sat here but can only say that it seems the unions and management want to find a solution. I saw nothing yesterday, however, to inspire confidence that they will achieve that.

The Minister of State said both sides have agreed to binding arbitration at the Labour Court. That is so in connection with the SDS issue but not other issues. They will have to ballot their members and that will be another problem. If the relationship between An Post management and the unions was a marriage we would by now have engaged every marriage guidance counsellor available because they have reached total breakdown. The management has good intentions but has used disastrous methods to reach a solution.

It blames its predecessor but that is irrelevant. In the two and a half years that I have been on the joint committee An Post management has been saying the same thing and quoting the projected profits mentioned here today. A professional politician does not blame a previous Minister for a problem, saying he or she was not Minister at the time. The management needs to accept that it is in command now, that it is accountable and responsible.

Partnership is the only way to achieve that and everybody favours that approach. For example, yesterday the major unions made their presentations for approximately two hours. The senior management, to my knowledge, had no representation in the Visitors Gallery listening to them. That creates a bad image, suggesting that management does not care what the unions say because it takes the view that "it is our way or the high way". I heard that phrase at least 400 times yesterday from the unions.

The lack of communication between management and unions at An Post is chronic. The level of passion and the amount of steam coming out of the unions' ears was more than one saw in the tough game between Arsenal and Manchester United on Tuesday night. There will be no binding arbitration on the major issues in An Post before the Labour Court on 7 February. Members will be balloted but I doubt they will reach a solution. The body language and gestures we witnessed yesterday do not suggest that even if An Post were to offer €1 million for every employee it would be a deal.

The relationship is not such that there can be a deal without binding arbitration. The Minister must get involved. Senator Finucane used the phrase "bashing heads together". That may well be necessary but the dispute requires professional and sensitive management by the Minister, or another body, to try to heal the wounds that have deepened over many years, whoever is to blame. Management and boards must take responsibility. At least both sides would like a solution but it is a long way off.

It is inconceivable that any Government, much less this one, would allow a situation to develop in the era of the Celtic tiger whereby pay deals promised under Sustaining Progress are not paid. Worse still, pensioners have been overlooked although they gave a lifetime to An Post. Whatever happened in recent years the money should have been found to ensure those people got their due. I hope that will be top of the list in any solution to the dispute and that it will come soon.

The people, particularly those of us from the west, owe a debt of gratitude to the many postmasters and postmistresses throughout the country. They would be the first to say that we need to cut back on the 3,000 post offices but I would not like to see more closures because there is a strong social dimension to these offices. Previous speakers here, and those at the committee meeting yesterday, pointed this out.

Senator Kenneally alluded to other services in which these offices could engage. For example, one should be able to pay one's car tax there, or rent on a county council house, and so on. It will soon be possible to pay parking and Garda fines there. Local authorities are opening one-stop shops around quite large areas yet a State infrastructure exists in the post office network that could be engaged to offer those services.

Some years ago people living in west Wicklow had to travel over the mountains from Baltinglass or Blessington to Wicklow town to pay their car tax. One entrepreneurial newsagent charged a small fee to do this for a few people each day. These suggestions for using the offices could be considered.

We should study the UK model in this regard. The Royal Mail has invested £450 million in securing its network and ensuring that it stays open. While I am not suggesting that level of expenditure we should examine what it would cost. The Minister could devise a strategy for the post office network to establish how we can best use and expand it for the future. Apart from its important social dimension there are many services into which it could diversify. It might be a form of decentralisation without the trouble of asking people to move.

Those people running the offices which have served An Post for years are entitled to a basic minimum wage. Some operate on a very small sum and that too could be examined in light of the UK model. The union representing them is concerned about security in remote areas, because there is money on the premises.

I am not aware of any marketing of An Post. Senator Kenneally mentioned the postman-snowman Christmas advertisement which is approximately 40 years old. It was my favourite advertisement when I was seven and I am now 31 years of age. It is necessary to address the marketing strategy which should come from the hunger and enthusiasm to develop and build on a business that could be successful.

It is laughable that there is only one advertisement in the year and that at Christmas time when business is up anyway. An Post needs to think of a marketing campaign to encourage people to use it when business is slowest. Toyshops sell toys all year round, including January, because they market them and have different items or whatever.

With regard to the public service obligation, since 1994 the company was set up with a commercial mandate. In general terms, State agencies should have a commercial mandate to the extent possible but not to the detriment of public service or the purpose for which they were originally set up. We could say this about a number of agencies, particularly An Post and Bord Gáis. Representatives of Bord Gáis recently attended an Oireachtas committee meeting and stated how well its operations were progressing, yet there is a gaping wound in the north west, including my area of Sligo, because the company has a commercial mandate. We need to revisit the issue of commercial mandates in regard to some of the semi-States, particularly An Post and Bord Gáis.

I wish the unions and management of An Post well in the search for a solution. It will take high level intervention to progress the matter. I hope the Minister will seek to achieve that.