Frank Fahey (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

I thank all the Senators who contributed to a very useful and interesting debate. I take on board all the points that have been made. All of us, particularly those who are parents, would have a natural inclination to have the maximum amount of parental leave paid at the highest possible rate. In reality we must strike a balance on the matter. The issue was debated at great length in the partnership process and the consensus reached is what is before us today. A high cost is involved in paid parental leave, which was a major issue in the debate this afternoon. Based on the qualifying criteria for the maternity benefit scheme, for an equivalent payment taking into account the social insurance payments costs and the public sector employer costs it would cost €129 million in 2001, which, given the increases that have taken place, at today's costs would be estimated at approximately €200 million in social insurance payments and public sector employer costs for public sector employees, which is a very significant amount.

In reality the partnership groups, IBEC and ICTU, in the talks on Sustaining Progress could not agree that payment should be made and the consensus they came up with is the one by which the Government is now bound to a certain extend. This is why we have opted to go along with the agreement reached when negotiating Sustaining Progress. The success of this economy since 1987 has been based on partnership agreements which were rigorously negotiated between employers and trade unions. It is because of that formula that we now have the difficulties we have concerning parental leave, child care, etc. We did not have such problems in 1987 because we had serious unemployment and we did not have as many opportunities for women as we have now.

As a parent, I agree with many of the comments made about the desirability of paid parental leave, but as Minister of State I have to acknowledge it is not possible to reach agreement on it among the social partners because there is a high cost involved. Having taken those points into consideration, the best possible formula has been reached in this Bill. While it is not perfect, it has been the subject of general agreement. All the issues raised by Senators will be considered. While it may be possible to examine some suggestions, it will not be possible to reconsider this proposal. I take the point made earlier by Senator O'Toole about the desirability of re-examining certain matters, but there is not much scope for consideration in this case.

A number of the Bill's technicalities were raised by various Members. Senator Terry asked about broken leave. The Bill allows for an employee to take leave in six-week blocks and states that the employer must accept that. An employer and an employee can agree to any flexible arrangement.

Senators Cox and Browne mentioned the burden on the small business sector. There was some rigorous negotiation between the social partners in this respect. It was agreed that there should be a minimum break of ten weeks between the two six-week blocks of leave to provide some protection to small companies.

Many Senators spoke about the need for a family-friendly balance between work and other parts of life. Society needs to encourage as many initiatives as possible in this area, in the public service as well as in the private sector. A great deal of progress has been made in this regard. We have come a long way from the dark days described by Senator O'Rourke, when it was impossible for two parents to go to work. We should acknowledge the progress being made in the public sector, where a series of work-life balance initiatives has been introduced. A broad range of options, such as term-time working, paid paternity leave and unpaid leave for domestic purposes, is available, in addition to statutory entitlements such as maternity, adoptive, parental and carer's leave which are now commonplace in the employment sector. I accept that we need to do more and I am sure we will do so. As time goes by, I am sure we will recognise the significant changes taking place in society. We need to strive on a continual basis to achieve the flexible and positive family-friendly balance between work and life that we would all like to have.

Senator Terry spoke about the Government influencing men to take up paternity leave. Other Senators compared Ireland with Europe in this regard. Many countries, particularly in mainland Europe, offer an attractive paternity leave regime. While we know about the benefits the European social model can bring to workers in mainland Europe, we also know about the grave difficulties it is causing for economies across Europe. When I spent two and a half years as Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with responsibility for labour affairs, it was clear to me at meetings of the Council of Ministers that many European countries are having significant problems with the social model in which they operate. There has been significant political upheaval in Germany, Austria and France, which are examining the social model carefully because they cannot afford it. In the competitive global economy in which they have to operate, they cannot afford the social model that has been generous to them in the past.

When we compare Ireland with other European countries, we should compare like with like. Ireland has been the most successful economy in Europe over the past 20 years. It has been successful because it has struck a balance between an important social conscience with growing social supports, as it could afford them, and an important physical and economic model which has caused the economy to grow in a significant way over the years. If we compare ourselves to mainland Europe, we should consider the balance this country has struck. We should bear in mind the disadvantages of the European social model. We demand more money to be spent in all areas all the time, without much consideration of where it will come from.

Statistics clearly demonstrate that the percentage of men availing of parental leave is quite low throughout Europe. The level of benefit which can be enjoyed is quite low in comparison with wage levels. Most men in Europe do not take up parental leave as a consequence. The Government will consider the argument that people on lower wages, particularly women, would benefit from paid parental leave. I am sure the social partners will address that issue anseo amach. I hope the position in that regard will change as the economy grows and we can afford to spend more money.

The transferability of parental leave from one parent to another was raised by a number of Senators. The EU directive does not allow leave to be transferred from one parent to another, unfortunately. It grants an individual right to parental leave to each parent. The Office of the Attorney General has advised us that we are not in a position to transfer that individual right from one parent to the other.

Senator O'Toole spoke about paternity leave, to which there is no statutory entitlement in this country. It is fair to say that employers across the spectrum are quite generous in allocating paternity leave. We heard examples of such generosity from some Senators today. Senator O'Rourke asked about public sector employees, such as teachers, health service workers, gardaí, prison officers and members of the Defence Forces. All such employees are entitled to three days paternity leave. Many private sector employers also provide a short period of paternity leave without deducting any pay. When I was Minister of State with responsibility for labour affairs, I noted that the private sector was quite generous in providing paternity leave. Companies that scrounge on such initiatives usually show such greed in their bottom line. Generosity is repaid in spades by employees after they have completed their celebrations. Some Senators spoke about a grudging attitude to parental leave. As I have said, a grudging attitude will usually bear poor results.