Don Lydon (Fianna Fail)

This is an important piece of legislation. Perhaps it would not have been contemplated but for the events of 11 September 2001, a defining moment for the world. I was in a taxi in Malaga when I heard the news. The driver told me that the Palestinians had bombed the White House. Needless to say, I was not long in getting to a television. However, terrorism did not begin on 11 September 2001, and it did not end there either. It has existed for a long time. We need only think of the horrific bombings in Bali and Madrid and the suicide bombings, which continue to plague the Middle East, to realise terrorism has not gone away. Several months ago we watched the Beslan siege with horror when schoolchildren were blown up, destroyed and shot.

The events of 11 September 2001 highlighted the challenge of international terrorism and resulted in a necessity of greater co-operation by the international community as well as action on the part of individual states. Terrorism knows no boundaries. I should be able to go on holidays to places such as Alicante without having to worry about an ETA bomb. However, that is not the case with terrorists. Increasingly they have been extending the boundaries because it has more effect. As Members of the Oireachtas, we have a duty to ensure terrorists, particularly in this country, find no comfort.

UN Security Council Resolution 1368 condemned the attacks of 11 September 2001 and called on states to work together to bring the perpetrators to justice and to redouble their efforts to prevent and suppress terrorist acts. Resolution 1373 specified a range of measures on which states are required to take action, especially in the area of combating the financing of terrorism.

The EU has responded quickly to this challenge. The EU framework decision on combating terrorism is the result of increased co-operation at European level in this area over many years and increased commitment among member states to tackling the terrorism threat in the wake of 11 September 2001. Framework decisions are binding on member states as to the result to be achieved, but leave to national authorities the choice of form and methods and do not entail direct effect.

The EU has long been concerned about the need to improve co-operation among member states with a view to combating terrorism. Article 29 of the Maastricht Treaty specifically refers to terrorism as one of the serious forms of crime to be combated at EU level by developing common action in the fields of police and judicial co-operation and by approximating, where necessary, rules on criminal matters in member states. Terrorism was also specifically referred to in the conclusions of the European Council meeting in October 1999 and in the European Council meeting in June 2000.

Political agreement in December 2001 of a framework decision on combating terrorism was formally adopted by the Council in 2002. This represents an EU level agreement on a definition of terrorist groups and offences. The agreement of common definitions and penalties relating to terrorism in all member states will ensure there is no soft jurisdiction in the EU in which terrorists can operate.

This Bill will give effect to a number of international instruments directed at terrorism and enable us to meet commitments which the State has undertaken as part of the EU and the broader international community, including those arising from UN Security Council Resolution 1373. Simply put, this Bill will combat terrorism. It makes provision, for the first time, for terrorist offences to be defined as a separate and distinct category of offence in our law. It will ensure those who commit terrorist offences, whether based inside or outside the State, will infringe the Offences against the State Acts 1939 to 1998. The Bill creates new offences of hostage taking, terrorist bombing and offences against internationally protected persons, such as diplomats. It will ensure Ireland does all it can to make the framework as effective as possible and we stand in solidarity with our partners in the EU and the UN in working to ensure terrorists are denied both the means and opportunity to carry out further atrocities.

The last main provision of the Bill will be to give effect to the United Nations Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism, which has been remarked on as important by Senators. It will mean, in effect, that our financial institutions will be legally required to play their part in preventing, detecting and reporting suspicious financial transactions which may relate to the financing of terrorism. This Bill will enable the courts to freeze and confiscate funds used, or allocated for use, in connection with the offence of the financing of terrorism or funds that are the proceeds of such an offence. It will extend the provisions of the Offences against the State Act relating to the property of unlawful organisations to that of terrorist groups. It will mean we have the most sophisticated procedures for identifying and tracing the financing of terrorism and for punishing those guilty of financing terrorism and receiving funds which have been used to finance terrorism.

The term "terrorist activity" is defined as offences under our law committed inside or outside the State with the intent of seriously intimidating a population, unduly compelling a government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act or seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, economic or social structures of a state or an international organisation. Such offences, for the purposes of the Bill, will include those involving violence against persons or property and related firearms and explosives offences or offences involving chemical or nuclear weapons. The Bill also covers terrorist-linked activity, including aggravated burglary and robbery, blackmail, extortion and certain forgery offences.

The term "terrorist group" is defined by reference to the EU framework decision, namely a structured group of more than two persons established over a period of time and acting in concert to commit terrorist offences.

Bills such as this are somewhat oppressive. There has been some concern in Opposition circles about the impact it will have on human rights. It has been frequently and irresponsibly suggested that it defines terrorism as any activity which unduly compels a government or an international organisation to change course. The Bill is not directed at ordinary, peaceful, democratic activity, the free expression of convictions and free political association.

The Bill does not criminalise the anti-globalisation movement because that movement seeks to reform world trade. Nor would it have had any application to the anti-apartheid movement, as has been suggested, because it campaigned for the replacement of the apartheid regime in South Africa. It upholds Article 6 of the treaty of the European Union, which has reference to the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms and the rule of law, which are common to member states, as well as to the fundamental rights guaranteed by the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Sometimes a case can be made with regard to oppressive regimes where people take to arms. However, this is not what this Bill is about. The Minister took the concerns into account. The Bill means people and organisations who have recourse to serious offences involving violence, such as hijacking, explosives offences and murder, with the intention of intimidating a population, unduly compelling a government or international organisation or seriously destabilising a state or international organisation will, in keeping with that intention, be guilty of a terrorist offence instead of the offence of which they would otherwise have been guilty under our criminal law. The Bill will equip the State more fully to respond to the threat posed by national and international terrorism. It will enable the State to honour important international commitments and play its part fully as a member of the international community in the fight against terrorism.

While the Bill cannot tackle the state terrorism which exists in certain parts of the world, we must start somewhere. Though, as I said earlier, one man's terrorist may be another man's freedom fighter, terrorism is not to be confused with the actions of people rising against a repressive regime. Terrorism knows no boundaries. The terrorism we have witnessed in modern days places bombs where innocent people die. Senator Brian Hayes mentioned the number of people killed by a certain group in the North all of whom were innocent and none of whom deserved to die. There was no justification for it. In a democracy there is a way to topple a government if one does not like it and of changing the rules of certain organisations. It is the democratic way. Once we have recourse to another way which involves arms, bombings or threats, the rule of law disappears and innocent people suffer all the time.

It does not matter which organisation one considers. There are terrorist organisations all over the world like ETA, Shining Path and al-Qaeda and, in general, they act indiscriminately. They do not adopt the democratic method which is available to everybody. It is possible in this country and in most democracies to change a government if one does not like it by using democratic means including free speech and freedom of organisation without violence. The best way to combat terrorism nationally and internationally is through the establishment of democracy. Within a democracy people tend to live peacefully and adopt methods other than the violent ones the organisations in question do. The Bill does not address state violence as that is a different matter involving war and the United Nations.

It is important on days like this, especially as we remember the Holocaust, to realise how quickly things can creep up on us. We should remember the 500,000 Romany people murdered by the Nazis and the approximately 15,000 homosexuals who were killed for no other reason than their sexual orientation. Children were killed by the Nazis as were people whom they removed from psychiatric hospitals and homes for the handicapped. Today we ask ourselves how those people could be wiped out within a state. On radio this morning, I heard a Jewish person who had spent his whole life studying the Holocaust say he could not explain how one nation could have done it. It is wrong to think in remembering the Holocaust that only Germans could do it. It happened with Pol Pot and in other countries across the world including Ireland to a small extent.

Terrorism occurs when people take the law into their own hands and is often a response to a perceived threat. The best defence we have against it is the establishment of democracy and the upholding of democratic freedoms. We need laws like those set out in the Bill. The legislation is important as a step along the way. While the Bill will not stop a terrorist or prevent the actions of a madman who wants to place a bomb at a holiday resort to kill people, it means that if these people are apprehended they will be dealt with as they should be. That is what is important about the Bill and the reason I recommend it to the House.