Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

Carlow is a town which I greatly admire. It is a fine progressive town. I do not believe that the closure will hit it as hard in qualitative terms as Thurles, partly because the overall economic conditions are quite different. I am sure that fairly generous redundancy terms can be negotiated and that State agencies will try to assist in filling an economic gap, which will be easier than, was the case for Thurles in the late 1980s.

In the choice between the two towns, many criteria applied. For example, the Mallow factory has the advantage of being a couple of miles outside the town and, if there is increased throughput, there will be fewer environmental problems if the plant is located a bit further away from the town. It is also connected to the railway line, although Carlow could also have been since the plant is beside the line.

I go a certain distance in agreeing with Senator Ryan's assertion that one cannot play King Canute. We normally urge private companies to anticipate and move ahead of developments and be prepared rather than wait for the last possible moment before adjusting and making changes. Despite similarities between the Government and Fine Gael motions, the latter contains an element of telling what is now a private company what it must do, namely, that it must reverse this decision and take no other actions until negotiations are concluded. I accept that Greencore has perhaps in a commercial sense been a bit opportunistic in moving ahead with this decision now. However, half the time that is what we expect of private commercial companies. Given the state of the economy at present, I would hesitate to dictate to the company. Nevertheless, I would have no particular difficulty if the company could be persuaded in its own interests to defer the decision for a year or so.

The Minister has made clear what the golden share relates to and what it does not, namely, that it does not give her the power to stop this development. From the farmers' point of view if a rail depot is established in the Carlow area, they would still be moving beet from one point to another. The rail depot at Wellington Bridge worked very well except for when the Cahir viaduct collapsed during the beet season, although it has since been put back in very fine working order. I travelled across it when it was re-opened and presumably nearly all the beet will travel by rail now, which may have positive environmental benefits.

Under the ethos of the EU, Ireland has the right to be self-sufficient in sugar production. As I understand it, Ireland is usually somewhere between 99% and 101% self-sufficient, depending on the harvest. Alan Matthews of Trinity College has an article in today's edition of The Irish Times, which suggests that we should give over sugar production to the real world. However, none of us can foresee the future. One of the purposes of the Common Agricultural Policy was to provide for food security. If we are able to provide security in this area, we are not under some moral obligation to give it up, particularly as the ACP countries do quite well under the sugar regime as against countries like Brazil. We need to be a bit cautious about using the Third World argument. We are not dumping sugar on world markets.

Reference was made to France and Ireland blocking progress. On this issue, unusually, we are on opposite sides so I do not think the Minister will be awarded the Légion d'Honneur for her battle on this issue. Senator Callanan put his finger on the issue when he stated that what was required was to ensure the survival of the industry. There have been difficult negotiations. I have great faith in the Minister and our negotiating team to get a much better result than the original proposals. I fully agree that our position has not been undermined. On the contrary, one can strengthen one's negotiating position if it looks as if one is rationalising one's industry and getting it in order.

Perhaps our colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, was slipping back into his role as a former president of the IFA. We have an absolute right to defend our sugar industry but we must put ourselves in the best possible position to do so. Therefore, I support the amendment to the motion.