Joe McHugh (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister to the House and the proposed legislation, purely in the context of recent criminal activities and also that of 11 September and the Madrid bombings of 11 March 2004. I could continue with a litany of different types of international terrorism. The lay person accepts that international terrorism is a problem. It is a serious issue that has to be challenged, with a strategy being put in place. However, an ambiguity exists among the laity as regards the measures being enacted and strategies being put in place specifically by the US Administration. Anyone with common sense could not accept the rationale for entering Iraq on the grounds that there were weapons of mass destruction there. There were no weapons of mass destruction, therefore, logic is out the window.

In terms of the confusion and ambiguity that exists in Ireland, matters are not as simplistic as people, including those in Government circles, would like them to be as regards curing the ills or trying to engineer a settlement of the historical dispute in Northern Ireland. If I walk 20 miles across the Border from Letterkenny to Derry, to Free Derry Corner, I am confronted by a large mural of the Palestinian flag. The ambiguity associated with that as regards people who are trying to move forward and evolve in a civilised manner, sends out many connotations. A relationship may exist in terms of oppression through the years, in colonisation by respective countries, but the ambiguity as regards the ordinary citizen living in Northern Ireland or in this State, is very palpable. I read yesterday in the Irish News that an esteemed journalist, Ms Nell McCafferty, believed that the IRA was not involved in the bank robbery in Belfast. That is her opinion. She bases it on the fact that she has asked senior ranking people within the IRA if they had robbed the bank, and they said "No". That is confusion and ambiguity. One may go on a Saturday night to a nightclub in Derry and get £1,000 sterling in Northern Bank notes for £250 sterling. Laundering of money is taking place on the doorsteps in Nationalist communities in Derry.

In terms of the money laundering aspects of the legislation, will the Minister say where these take effect? How does the Bill protect Border counties on the Republic side, because this activity is large-scale and widespread across nightclubs, businesses and pubs in Northern Ireland as a result of this bank raid? If one asks in Nationalist communities who was responsible for the bank raid, one will be told it was the IRA. That is the information we are getting and it is the word on the street. We must always take note of what we hear on the grapevine. No matter what legislation we enact on this side of the Border, however, or how much support we give the Garda, we still need a similar police network in Northern Ireland with which it can work in a co-operative manner. That is not happening and will not happen until all members of the community have full confidence in their security system, the PSNI. Mr. Denis Bradley outlines on a constant basis the need for all political parties to become involved in the PSNI. We can talk about peace processes and power sharing at a political level, but the work must be done on the ground. In order to counteract criminal behaviour at a grassroots level there must be confidence in the justice system. We must start at the local level within communities in Northern Ireland.

We cannot stereotype the Northern Ireland culture. There are so many different aspects to it. However, there are elements within the Nationalist community — whether it be a culture or a way of life — that still believe it is acceptable to carry out criminal behaviour. It is not on for a political party such as Sinn Féin to be constantly talking about its electoral mandate. I believe Mr. Martin McGuinness keeps referring to 350,000 voters North and South as Sinn Féin's electoral mandate. I believe I am in politics for the larger community. I would warn Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats as regards something touched on by Senator Mooney. On the one hand, Sinn Féin is talking about its electoral mandate. Now, all of a sudden Fianna Fáil is talking about its own electoral mandate and the PDs are looking at theirs. It is not about electoral mandates, but rather about finding a lasting solution to the problems of Northern Ireland.

It is not about working and establishing how many people vote for one, but rather about a lasting solution. At the last round of negotiations the British and Irish Governments failed. They were not the first administrations to fail. There have been successive failures. Today's debate is not about the peace process, but if we are to move forward in this regard, criminality has to be addressed.