Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. We have dealt with this serious problem over the years and it was sometimes quite embarrassing that the pensions of those in nursing homes were so minimal. The issues were very confusing even for elected representatives. The decision to grant all persons over 70 a medical card was a stunt on the part of the Government prior to the last general election but we welcomed it nevertheless. However, the Department of Health and Children underestimated the number of eligible people and believed there were 39,000 instead of over 71,000. One must ask who crunches the numbers because this is a considerable underestimation. The legislation introduced was seriously flawed and it is clear therefrom that health boards were not legally entitled to reduce the full eligibility to people over 70 or to seek a contribution from them.

Although I understand why the Senators on the Government side have been quite positive in stating why this Bill is needed, I contend that the Minister of State is rushing it. It should be noted that when people complained to the health boards and said this practice should not be continued they were not charged extra.

Senator Leyden mentioned the €2,000 refund. It is a bit soon to determine how much can be paid until we see the extent of the payments received illegally and the number of people affected. This is a bit hasty. It is as if someone came into my shop and I overcharged him or her by €20 or €10, and when he or she returned three weeks later I put up my hands saying I had made a mistake and offered €2, take it or leave it. This is not a bargain basement or a closing down sale. These people have been swindled in many ways. We should stand back and determine to what extent they have been short-changed. It is a bit rich to start offering a certain sum, take it or leave it. I would like that clarified and I am sure the Minister of State will clarify it.

The real issue surrounding the legality of nursing home charges is focused on the legislation passed in 2001. One problem area is that there was a meeting last year but the then Minister for Health and Children did not seem to take the initiative. In politics we like people to put up their hands and say "Mea culpa". The present Minister deserves our congratulations and thanks for being honest and up-front. I appreciate that.