Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

I know the Senator has done much work in this area. Child care has many aspects. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform recently announced that it has substantial funds available to lead a child care programme. The Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Health and Children and Finance and I need to work together to ensure there is an integrated child care strategy available to the State.

Fraud was mentioned. In 2003, savings of €306 million were achieved through the very good work of over 600 full-time staff who conducted over 320,000 reviews. They examined the files of over 7,500 employers. These figures indicate that we are committed to eliminating fraud from the system. We want to do so for the obvious reason that it will enable more money to be allocated to genuine people.

The Money Advice and Budgeting Service was alluded to. This year, it has €13.62 million available to it, which is an increase of €2.2 million on the previous year. I have given the service a special grant of €700,000 to make up for last year's apparent deficit of €700,000.

I have taken careful note of the points made by Senators Burke, Ormonde and Kitt and will deal with them as best I can. Senator Mansergh has upended one marvellous myth in the Seanad tonight, namely, that Seán Lemass is not on record as having made the famous statement that a rising tide lifts all boats. I am sure many a quotation is ascribed to Shakespeare that cannot be found in his literature. If one reads carefully what I said in the Dáil when I took up office as Minister for Social and Family Affairs, one will note that I stated I disagreed with Seán Lemass. A rising tide does not lift all boats and one has to intervene. I agree with Senator Mansergh that Mr. Lemass was an interventionist and intervened in many areas of the economy. He believed in intervening where necessary, as I do, not for the sake of it or to produce the planned economy which has not been too successful in parts of eastern Europe but to lift boats that are not rising. Senator Mansergh also stated that social welfare policy should be made by the Department of Social and Family Affairs and not by the Department of Finance. I plan to make certain of this during my tenure.