Brian Hayes (Fine Gael)

I appreciate the points made by Senator Maurice Hayes. However, my experience — albeit in respect of the existing Garda Complaints Board system — is that the big legal guns make a difference. I was involved in a particular case and I encouraged someone to take a case all the way to the courts. The person to whom I refer was an ordinary citizen and his mother was not of huge means. Not only did they come up against the might of the individual garda involved but also that of his entire representative organisation, which gave him 100% support. The latter made a huge difference in the case to which I refer. Admittedly, the case had been referred to the courts by the Garda Complaints Board at the end of its procedure. We need to take account of the fact that vulnerable people making complaints with the best possible intentions will be fought the entire way. Gardaí, whether it is right or wrong, have the full force of a representational organisation behind them, whereas ordinary people do not.

I am inclined to accept what Senator Maurice Hayes said in respect of the need for a person making a complaint to have with them a witness or someone to offer them support while trying to tease out the complaint with the investigating officer. That is a good suggestion. However, we should not underestimate the power of the legal machine when it gets going. In the case to which I refer, a poor result was obtained from the court because the person involved could not afford to meet, head-on, the full force of the legal representation arrayed against them.