Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)

There are a number of amendments and I will deal with each of them. Senator O'Meara invited me to speculate on membership of the board. It is a matter for the Minister under the legislation, but there will be an element of continuity with the interim board. However, the final decision rests with the Minister.

Amendment No. 9 seeks to allow elections to take place for the appointment of members to the board of the executive. The intent of the amendment is that some members of the board could be appointed by means of elections conducted in accordance with regulations drawn up by the Minister. Appointment of members to the board by means of these elections would be an addition to the provision currently in the Bill which allows members to be appointed by the Minister.

As the Tánaiste said in her Second Stage speech, the purpose of this Bill is to provide for the creation of a unified management structure under a management board. It is not intended that the board be representative, as would be the case if the amendment was accepted. The board will comprise competent, experienced persons drawn from a wide range of backgrounds. The representation of the stakeholders in the system can be dealt with through the national consultative forum, local public representatives and the advisory panel.

Amendment No. 10 seeks to delete a provision of the Bill which provides that the chief executive officer shall be an ex officio member of the board. Senator O'Meara asked me to outline why that was the case. The CEO is a cornerstone of the system being set up and will be an Accounting Officer for public accounts purposes before Dáil Éireann. His or her position as a member of the board is a matter of common sense. It would be advantageous to the board, but not to a board which has a Chinese wall between it and its chief executive officer. It brings the board in line with modern corporate governance, practice and principles. The CEO can bring a particular dimension and perspective to the board given his or her familiarity with operational matters and issues arising for the board that will help it in making decisions.

Amendment No. 11 provides that the elections proposed by the previous amendment shall include elections by panels of professional and staff interests. This would be a cumbersome method of appointing the board. I am not satisfied that electing board members on this basis would achieve the range and mix of skills, expertise and competence required for a broadly based board. However, the amendment is useful because it serves to throw into relief what exactly the board will do. Senators asked how the board will operate after the establishment date.

It is important to bear in mind that the HSE board will be a management rather than a representation board. By accepting this amendment there is a risk that the board will be seen as representational or sectoral in its make-up. The Prospectus report addressed this issue of appointments to the board. It concluded that with over 300 grades of staff in health care, it would be impossible to have a representative system based on professions which would be workable. It is also pointed out that professional representatives tend to examine issues from the perspective of their own profession rather than that of the broader community. For that reason it was decided to set up a management board, appointed by the Minister.

Senator Browne moved an amendment proposing the laying of information about the suitability and expertise of an appointee before the Houses of the Oireachtas. I do not consider that appropriate. Under the provisions of section 11(5) the name of the person appointed to the board is published by way of a notice in Iris Oifigiúil and this is sufficient.

The purpose of amendment No. 13, which relates to financial interests, is to disqualify a person, who is perceived as having a conflict of interest by reason of a substantial financial connection with a commercial interest, from membership of the board of the executive. The Bill contains several safeguards to ensure the proper functioning of the executive's board as well as the maintenance of standards of integrity and conduct and the implementation of the code of governance. That is set out in a different part of the Bill. The intent of this amendment is covered by section 25 under which board members and senior management are subject to the Standards of Public Office Act 2001. Section 17 of that Act in particular deals with the issue of conflicts of interest or material conflicts of interest. That is dealt in that Act, the general legislation covering persons in this position in regard to State boards and positions.

Section 25 of this Bill provides that a code of conduct will be drawn up for employees and advisers who will not be covered by the Standards in Public Office Act. This code will be admissible in any proceedings brought before a court or other tribunal. This legislation together with the ethics in public office legislation and the Standards in Public Office Act 2001 plugs any of those ethical gaps.

Amendment No. 14, moved by Senator O'Meara and supported by Senator Henry, sought to designate 40% of the membership of the board, as a minimum, as men and 40%, as a minimum, as women. It is not appropriate to put a numerical number on the gender balance of the board. The provision is the Bill is the standard one in Bills of this nature which obliges the Government to take into account the need to secure equality.

In amendment No. 17 Senator Browne proposes that the Minister should be obliged to notify the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children of any alteration to the composition of the board made under this section. The Minister is required to insert a notice in Iris Oifigiúil advising of the membership of the board or of any alteration to the board under the provisions of Schedule 2 which deals with the filling of casual vacancies on the board.