Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I hope that it does do the business and it is right that it should be in place. I hold the view, and have said so publicly on many occasions, that locally elected people should have a critical involvement in this structure, but it is wrong to say there was unanimity within the Government parties on this issue. That were not and there still is not.

Will the Minister of State agree that because the Government gave a commitment to get this done by this particular date and because of the row about councillors no longer being allowed to be members of health boards, this date suddenly became as important as Christmas Day — it is immovable and we are stuck with it? Consequently, consideration of this legislation is rushed.

We should be supportive of the Tánaiste who is new to this job and responsibility in this area, to ensure that the new structure will work, but we are not doing that. The issues in question have not been addressed. The Government has run in fear of even the term "rights-based". There is an importance in giving people a right, but such a right is based on available resources. That would deal with the Government's arguments on this issue and could encompass the point made by Senator O'Meara.

We will run into difficulty with the establishment of the health service executive in the manner proposed. It will take over from the boards. It will be able to sue and to be sued, as provided in this section, but will it be able to do the business? There is no indication that it will do so. The legislation does not provide for putting any pressure on it.

It is proposed that it will deliver a better service, but how will it do that? We will hand over €10 billion or €11 billion per year to the members of this executive to manage the service. If that was the Minister of State's money or if I was handing it over, I would want a much better receipt than what is given in the Bill. I would want to be sure how such money would be spent. I am not suggesting anything related to fraud or anything like that, but I do not know what efficiencies will be made.

For example, in the case of accident and emergency services, will someone tell the members of the executive that we want to reduce the problems in those services, or will we assume they will address those problems? Why are specific provisions requiring the members of the executive to address those issues not inserted in the Bill? In the Bill we ask them to manage and deliver the health service, but that is currently being done by the health boards. What will be different on the establishment of the executive other than that it will manage the health service? That is the problem with the legislation.

In deference to what the Minister of State said, I agree with him that the Government cannot cover every situation by inserting another line in a Bill. I am not suggesting that can be done, but we need to know what it is that the members of the executive will be required to do. I appreciate that I have to consider the boarder picture, but will the executive provide better arrangements in terms of bed management or accident and emergency services, or is it required to do that? What rules and regulations will govern it? We can deal with this in more detail when we deal with the proposed plan. I have major reservations about the executive, even though I support the Bill as a broad entity.