Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)

I second the motion.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, to the House and wish him well in his position. He has a great interest in the marine. In my party's recent reshuffle in the Seanad, I requested Deputy Kenny to allow Senator McHugh be spokesperson on marine because I know he, coming from Donegal, has a tremendous interest. Whereas the marine would be extremely important in fishing ports like Killybegs, Greencastle, Dingle and Castletownbere, it may not be given the same emphasis in my county of Limerick. Nonetheless it is a subject in which I have taken an interest over many years. In the other House, I was Front Bench spokesman on the marine and natural resources. Deputy Woods, a former Minister, was hailed as an all-conquering hero in Donegal. The marine sector practically eulogised him because at that time there was quite a refurbishment of the whitefish fishing fleet and generous grants were available. There was considerable success. There was a kind of momentum within the marine industry and perhaps to some degree that momentum has now dissipated.

The Minister faces a difficult time in December. I know from past experience that in the period coming up to Christmas Day most people decamp to all parts of the country from 16 or 17 December when talks begin in Brussels. The fishing organisations attend these talks and are very concerned about their outcome. The International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, ICES, produces projections on tonnages based on scientific evidence. Total allowable catches are then projected which are not necessarily consistent with ICES projections. The conservation plans of ICES would mean the death knell for much of the fishing industry. There is a certain amount of give and take when it comes to the trading in Brussels and certain improvements are made in certain fish quotas and cutbacks in other quotas. The combination of pelagic and demersal fishing led to a degree of optimism about the herring and mackerel fleets in the area off Killybegs and the fishing off the Norwegian coast.

When I was in the marine brief I took a trip to Norway. Four or five years ago the Norwegians seemed to have a more enlightened policy regarding the fishing industry. I acknowledge Norway is not in the European Union and it has certain accession rights but as a sovereign state, it recognised the importance of the oil and gas and fishing industries. It struck me at the time that Norway was already making great attempts to deal with the issue of discards. It is recognised within the fishing industry that the existing type of quota system and what is allowable for fishermen to bring back to port, often lends itself to other fishing by-products being discarded. This is a pity because in many cases it involves juvenile as well as mature fish. I do not know to what degree the European Union has tried to target the area of discards to see if improvements could be made.

The weighing-in of fish catches is another element which is unfair to fishermen. In many cases the water is weighed as part of the tonnage and this is a distorted mechanism vis-À-vis other European countries.

Yesterday Sky News broadcast a programme on fishing which dealt with the British and Scottish fleets. An article in The Independent referred to the disappearing cod and hake stocks. It made for depressing reading and British and Scottish fishermen must feel very downcast about the industry.

Our fishing fleet is a very minor part of the overall European fishing scene. Spain is one of the dominant fishing countries, along with Portugal and France to some degree. Those countries often dominate the type of European fishing policies. The article describes the projected depletion of cod and hake stocks. The depletion of hake is due to the overfishing by the Spanish because hake is a very important variety for consumption in Spain.

It is quite an achievement to see the total allowable catches which shows a projected increase — I stand to be corrected if I am wrong — in hake and cod. The cod increase is small because it was seen as a vanishing fish stock and some of the conservation policies may be bearing some fruit. It is interesting to note that fish fingers are being marketed not as cod fish fingers but as being made with hoki fish from New Zealand.

I often wonder how fishermen can make forward plans. The Minister of State's officials will also remember when there were encouraging accounts of the depletion of fish quotas and the names of deep sea varieties of fish were becoming familiar to us. We heard names such as the orange rowi, grenadier and scabbard. They began to appear as part of Irish cuisine. Quotas are now being introduced because of a depletion in those stocks. It is no wonder that fishermen are becoming frustrated at going out to fish.

I could speak critically about the fishing policy but I prefer to be constructive about decisions made with regard to certain trawlers and super-trawlers in the past few years by the previous Minister, Deputy Fahey. It was a short-sighted policy in respect of the overall fishing fleet. Many fishermen regard the decisions taken then as being unfair, inequitable and unjust.

I was pleased that Senator McHugh tabled the motion because the House rarely has an opportunity to have a constructive discussion about fishing. I recognise the frustrations with which the Minister of State must deal in Brussels later this month and the frustrations of the civil servants and the fishermen. In many areas if the fishing fleet and fish processing industry did not exist, there would be no other industry.

I wish the Minister of State well in his discussions. I note that one of the fishermen's groups is represented in the Visitors Gallery. I also wish them well in their discussions in Brussels. I can sympathise with the fishermen because they face an impasse. Senator McHugh referred to the fishing days at sea which is another impediment and fishermen must be very frustrated.