Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)

Some of the issues raised by Senator McHugh would apply to any aspect of government or administration. By querying what role each individual member would have on the board and to what extent they could influence it, he is suggesting members might be able to influence a decision as to grant money to his or her own region. I presume the board members will have an opportunity, based on what is before them, to put forward their views based on their knowledge of their region. That would apply to any board or council and I cannot see that it would be any different in the disbursements board. I presume he was trying to tease out whether there would be a difference there and I imagine that there would not be.

On the points raised by Senator Ryan, it is wrong to equate Dublin, the seat of Government, the seat of the Civil Service or the seat of Cabinet in some way with general centralisation. We must accept that the board could just as easily be sitting in Galway or in Cashel, where they would be welcome. That is not the issue. The main issue is whether they have at their disposal what is required to make good and fair decisions. That is the final part of the decision-making process.

The most important part of any decision-making process is the application. If I have observed a difficulty in accessing funds over the years, it is the difficulty people experience filling in an application form and making their case, putting in the buzz words and touching all the right pulses. I know of good projects that could have been very successful if the applicants were good at that and I know of bad projects that may have succeeded as a result of the applicants being able to fill in that application form. I would go back three or four steps and in some way, if possible within the process, provide assistance for people. The Minister touched on this earlier when he spoke of academia, referring to ten people with academic qualifications on a board. On the other hand, he is not arguing against academic qualifications. He is saying there are practitioners who may not have academic qualifications who are highly experienced, highly motivated, well thought of in their community, able to motivate other people and who have a vision. All of those elements do not necessarily come under the heading of academic qualification but translating all of those positive elements onto an application form is difficult.

I wonder whether part of a process could involve an oral extension to an application form. I acknowledge it can seem laborious but there could even be a shortlist process. I am assuming now that there will not be an assessment on the ground. If there is such assessment, then there is a possibility of interacting with the people making the application and finding out exactly what they are suggesting. My biggest fear would not be at the board level or, indeed, at Government level because that is the final part of the process.

We must be fair to the subject before us and realise that exactly the same discussions could take place on the disbursement of any funds. From where Senator Ryan is coming, however, let us show good example in this particular case. Maybe the good example is coming from the Minister. It is quite clear in his contributions. He is passionate about this. I do not believe it is just rhetoric and I know that from experience. He is quite passionate about allaying the fears we have been hearing for the simple reason that if he never heard them, he himself would be aware of them and would be determined to ensure that there would be value for money.

Senator McHugh made a point about continuation. This is also true of most capital funding, in particular. One must be very sure, having secured the capital funding, matching funds, etc., that one is capable of sustaining the project concerned. Although I may be wrong, this is not meant as the be all and end all. It is one element. It could be the very element and salvation a project would need. The important point is that it is spending focused on areas. It is precisely what Senator McHugh has been saying. He is only echoing the intention of the process, that is, to help those who are most in need and those who are able to use that funding. In itself, the fact that it may not be the totality of what is required, but one element of it, should not be an obstacle to its progress.

There are other areas where people can access funds and often there may be a shortfall. By its nature, a project may not fit fully under another heading. This, in many ways, can be the lever required. Although "partnership" is a misused and over used word, it applies here from top to bottom in that partnership looks at the community. The Government must see itself in partnership. Even ADM Limited and the board are part of that.

It is also true that all of us will be playing a role as public representatives. We will be hoping to advise and help our communities. Anybody with expertise should be making that available. I have seen that in other areas, particularly in the area of sports grants. How many sports bodies come to us individually and ask for help with the application form so that they can put forward the best case? I would not rule out our own involvement or the role we would play in this.