Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)

I welcome the Minister to the House and congratulate him on his appointment to this new portfolio. I also thank Senators, particularly Senator Terry, who made the case for this debate.

I agree with Senator O'Toole. People have stopped putting money into pensions and have put that money into housing because of the difference in returns in the past 15 years. That is why the housing boom has had a perverse effect on new entrants to the market. As Senator O'Toole said, it is fine to hope that a house is a wise investment but it is not liquid if money is needed in a hurry. If we continue to build such large numbers of houses, there will be an over-supply when people wish to cash in on their property.

The Minister pointed out that dependency ratios have fallen from five to two in a generation. The onus lies with the employer to explain pensions to people who have come to the State to seek work but it does not register with them. Why would it? Those people, however, will stay in this State. Over 100,000 people have work permits and we need them because we will be dependent on them in years to come. There is an onus not just on employers but on the Government to explain this situation to them, it cannot be left to the Pensions Board. Employers can say they have fulfilled their obligations under the law and it is entirely up to the employee to take up the plan.

The retirement pension is payable to people aged 65 and over. At age 66, a person can transfer to an old age pension but on taking a retirement pension, a person who wishes to stay in business or at work can only earn €37 per week gross otherwise he or she will lose the retirement pension. A person who is 66, however, can change to the old age pension and earn unlimited amounts from external sources. In that year, people will lose their business contacts. The economy needs people to remain employed and our life expectancy has increased by six years since we joined the EU so we must look at the retirement age. The age was increased for new entrants into the public service in last year's budget but this anomaly between retirement and old age pensions remains and it should be examined.

People have claimed to be socialists——