Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)

The question revolves around what is done with it, how it is collected, how it is managed, who invests it, whether it goes into shares, property, bonds and so on. I appreciate that these are real issues. However, one cannot argue the principle because we have accepted it for many years and we apply it every day. We deduct PRSI from people's incomes and it goes into the social fund which is invested with the help of the NTMA. It shows a surplus in the social fund at the moment. The principle is well established. The issue for future generations, for future Governments, for this Government and for me is whether to expand that, whether to roll that out or to have a mixture. In that regard — Senator Ryan put it very well — there is no single solution. We have the social insurance fund, PRSAs the national pensions reserve fund and non-contributory pensions which come directly from the State. There are at least four mechanisms for providing pensions and what we need is a combination.

I acknowledge what Senators have said and confirm I am working on their suggestions. Senator Cox reminded me how vulnerable women are in the area of pensions. I propose to examine that issue. Senator O'Toole emphasised the importance of flexibility and part-time working. I will examine the system from that point of view. He makes the point that people work for 30 or 40 years until one Friday they go home and the following Monday they have nothing to do but look at a blank wall. The Senator argued for more flexibility regarding part-time working and ensuring that it does not interfere with the person's pension if he or she goes back to work for the company he or she left. We are trying to introduce that kind of flexibility into the system. I will also examine the idea the Senator put forward regarding home savings.

Senator Morrissey elaborated on the awareness idea. He particularly asked me to examine the retirement pension anomaly that exists for people between the age of 65 and 66. On the surface it seems anomalous that at the age of 65 a person can get a pension but is not allowed to work but at the age of 66 he or she can be in receipt of a pension and be allowed to work. I will examine that in the context of the budget. I understand the cost involved is approximately €13 million and approximately 1,500 people are affected.

Senator Leyden referred to the fact that since 1977 there has been an increase of almost 70% in the value of pensions. There is obviously much more to be done in this area. At the same time we must be conscious that the average spend on pensions by the 15 European Union Governments is 12% of GDP. Here it is just under 5% of GDP. Our older population is a smaller proportion of the population as a whole at this point but, allowing for that, while we have made enormous strides in this area we still have many more strides to take. I reiterate that I am committed to providing at least €200 for old age contributory and non-contributory pensions by the end of this Government's term of office.

I thank Senator Browne for his kind comments regarding my time in the Department of Transport. I genuinely hope to bring the same kind of determination to this Department. We deal on a weekly basis with hundreds of thousands of people. More than 1 million people receive some type of communication or benefit from the Department, which I have the honour to lead. I hope I can work to remove anomalies to bring about a fairer system and improve the lives of the hundreds of thousands of people who look to this Department for support every day. I look forward with some excitement to trying to make a difference.

I thank Senators for their contributions. This debate on pensions has been very timely. I wanted to hear what Senators had to say and have taken it on board. I am conscious, as Senator Ryan said, that we have come a long way in the area of pensions since the days of Bismarck. I am also conscious that too high a proportion of our workforce are making no provision for pensions. The State has a responsibility to encourage people to make provision. It also has a responsibility to step in and fill gaps where they exist. I thank the House for a very good debate.