Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)

I thank Senator Ulick Burke for sharing his time with me and I am sorry not to have more time to speak on this issue. While I welcome the Minister of State to the House, I am disappointed with his speech. He should have outlined in greater detail where we stand and what can be done with PPPs. There is great confusion in the public mind between public private partnerships and design, build and operate projects. As regards the latter, the majority if not all of the funding is borne by the taxpayer.

Several Members have outlined the situation in regard to school projects carried out under design, build and operate projects, as distinct from PPPs. In this regard the Comptroller and Auditor General's report outlines the position correctly. Until now, the majority of schools throughout the country were not getting the maintenance funds they needed to carry out the necessary upkeep of their buildings. With regard to design, build and operate projects, the Government enters a contract with the developer for a 20 or 25-year period to give him or her an amount annually, indexed to inflation, to cover the maintenance throughout this period. As was said by Senator Ulick Burke, some of those projects have come in at a cost, which is 13% higher than the conventional method. In view of this, much of the detail regarding these projects has to be investigated, particularly on the operation and maintenance fronts. There is a role here for local authorities, especially as regards public water and sewerage.

I am disappointed that the Minister of State has not provided details of the Ringsend plant. The former Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, explained to the House that the plant was something of a prototype as regards future public sewerage projects, yet there was not even a reference to this in the Minister of State's speech. The plant is the example being championed throughout the country, yet the Minister of State has not mentioned how it will affect businesses in the capital and greater Dublin area feeding into it. The former Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, went on the record in the House in insisting that this was the way local authorities would have to go, describing it as "the number one route". However, there has been no reference to how it will affect the business community and those who will have to pay for it under public private partnership. This is a PPP and also a design, build, operate and finance project, yet we do not know how much it will cost.

With regard to some of the roads built under public private partnerships, for example the Kinnegad route, I would have liked the Minister of State to have spelt out how much they will cost and what the projected returns are from the tolls to be put in place. Where are the benefits for the taxpayer and the road user? At this stage, we are at least entitled to some figures on that aspect. I am disappointed the Minister of State did not provide them. This matter should be further debated.