John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)

I am sure she will do a very good job and she is well qualified for the post.

I pick up on the point with which Senator O'Toole concluded regarding the very significant jobs vets are called to do in our society, which they have done very well for a long period. The practice of veterinary medicine has changed dramatically in recent years and not just since I started farming some 30 years ago. Many vets have moved from practices catering for large animals to also treating small animals. They play a crucial role in food safety. Some 30 years ago in Kildare where I live, the norm was for the vet to be on-call 24 hours a day for large animals. That has now changed dramatically and many of them are located in towns with very good facilities to look after pets and small animals. They also cater for the bloodstock industry at the Curragh and do a fine job for the greyhound racing industry.

We have had a clear need for the Bill for some time. While it is a long Bill, as the Minister said, it is quite straightforward in its intent and in the regulations and structures it imposes on the profession. While high professional standards are important in any profession, in the past we have had a tendency to be very exclusive. In other words, unless one had the designated qualification from the desired university one was not regarded as competent to do the job, which is not the case any more. In any event it is addressed in the Bill. Under EU law regarding the movement of capital, goods and services, we must allow others to come and practise here, which is good.

We need an input from outside. If the profession is closed, over time abuses and lethargy creep in, which are not in the interests of the profession or of its clients. I know provision is made for people coming from third countries, with which I agree. Senator O'Toole is correct in saying this is a fraught issue, with which the Minister will have difficulties. Nevertheless it is important to try to go in that direction. It should be open for people who are properly qualified to come and work. There should also be opportunities for people who are less well qualified, such as veterinary nurses, to participate in the profession. They should have the protection the profession affords and the disciplines it requires.

Technology has also changed dramatically, which has placed an increasing burden on the profession. I agree with the Minister's views on the composition of the board. It is obviously desirable to avoid having a large board, which would become unwieldy and cumbersome. I accept that a board of 17 members is large.

I agree with Senator O'Toole on the issue of disqualification. I do not believe local authority members should be disqualified. I can see a justification for disqualifying Oireachtas Members, not because of a conflict of interest but because their exclusive focus should be here. In the past, I succeeded in amending Bills to allow local authority members become members of State boards. Some local authority members are very well qualified, including some very capable vets who would bring experience to bear, which would be useful to the board. Members of county councils and regional authorities should not be excluded from membership of the board. I ask the Minister to consider this matter.

We may have a difficulty fitting everybody into a 17-member board. I will argue for certain people as others have done. Consumers will be represented through the nominee of the Director of Consumer Affairs, which is correct. However, the farmer is a primary and very interested consumer. On all the food boards and most of the other boards under the auspices of the Department of Agriculture and Food, it has been standard practice to have farming representation. I believe we should find a vehicle to allow farming representation.

Senator Coonan mentioned the Animal and Plant Health Association, which is the body with primary responsibility for animal medication and remedies. Representatives of that association have an expertise that could be usefully employed on the board. These matters can be considered in more detail on Committee Stage.

Senator O'Toole made a point about consultation. It is the nature of such Bills that those who are primarily affected only become truly engaged when the Bill is published. It is difficult to get them to engage beforehand. I do not know the background in the case of the veterinary profession. However, I am sure its members will want to make an input on the Bill to the Minister. Some meaningful engagement with the profession should take place at this stage.

Some Ministers have a very good record of significantly amending Seanad Bills. In particular, I remember the Environmental Protection Agency Bill, which was very substantial legislation. It was amended considerably in the House. I do not suggest this Bill needs major amendment. However, this is the place to address any areas with gaps or confusion. Senators may have more time to make such amendments than would be the case in the other House and I commend that to the Minister.

Bearing in mind the size and composition of the council, the Minister is right in saying the profession should not have a majority because vested interests look after themselves, irrespective of the profession. If there is a majority of that profession at the council in a negligence case, it will give an edge that might not otherwise be given.

I am uncomfortable with the powers conferred on the Minister in section 14. We always say the current Minister would never be vindictive but under section 14 the Minister may confer on the council such additional functions connected with its functions for the time being as the Minister considers appropriate. That is different from the general policy direction provision contained in section 15.

The veterinary profession cannot be excluded from the raising of standards of corporate governance and members should not be able to continue on boards ad infinitum. There is nothing in the Bill to prevent a person from sitting on a board in perpetuity. The veterinary profession representatives are elected by ballot which confers a certain legitimacy, but it is unhealthy for individuals to sit on boards for 20 or more years. The rigours of corporate governance that apply in business should apply to the professions.

The council is entitled to establish committees other than the education committee which is defined. However, the Bill is silent on the numbers and composition of these committees, allowing them wide powers. Such flexibility is appropriate.

The registrar is not a member of the council and can be excluded from meetings. He or she should attend meetings other than those where his or her employment conditions are being discussed. It is unreasonable to expect a chief executive not to attend board meetings. There is also a provision for members not being counted in the quorum in the event of a conflict of interest. What does this mean? Can a person who arrives late vote? Persons should not have a vote or should withdraw from the meeting if they have a conflict of interest.

The Minister can appoint one person to the board who is not eligible to be registered but who performs functions of animal welfare. Would that be a person from the animal rescue centre or the cats' home?

Section 29 excludes members of the local authorities from membership, bringing political correctness to an absurd level. Persons who might have professional qualities will be excluded by virtue of membership of a local authority. Such membership could be useful. People should not be discouraged from running for election.

There is a fee to be removed from the register or to have additional qualifications included. If someone gets a PhD, he or she should not have to pay a fee to have it included.

I agree with the Minister about the need for transparency in disciplinary procedures. The General Medical Council appeared before the All-Party Committee on the Constitution when it was considering the issue of abortion and it would not even discuss general areas, let alone individuals who might have been disciplined.

I assume the granting of titles has to do with specialisation. As the profession becomes more specialised, it will be possible to accommodate persons other than veterinary surgeons who are doing similar work.

If the registrar makes a determination and a person appeals, it is standard practice to go to the High Court but that sets the bar high. Could it be done through the Circuit Court instead?

It is important to include veterinary nurses because they are an essential part of the service being provided. When will the Minister establish the separate regulatory body for veterinary nurses provided for in section 99?