Mary Henry (Independent)

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Power, for attending. This is his second crack at the Seanad in one afternoon.

Many Senators have taken a great interest in the situations in both Iraq and Palestine and I tabled this motion in the hope that they would have an opportunity to contribute to it. I thank Senator Norris for seconding it. I will speak mainly on Iraq, on which he will also speak, but his knowledge of Palestine is probably greater than any of ours.

The bank holiday this week gave me a chance to listen to radio programmes which I do not usually get a chance to hear. I heard a man called P. J. O'Rourke on the BBC World Service. He is an American, I presume of Irish descent, who has written a book about the great derring-do of President George W. Bush in Iraq. He thinks it is all going fairly well and that we are all being very negative about the whole situation. He used phrases like "Iraq is an evil country" and "Islamists hate us, they are bad people". He was being interviewed by a British person and he gave British people some praise because they gave support to the invasion of Iraq, but he saw the rest of us as being pretty hopeless. However, he said something which I thought was interesting, that because the rest of Europe was not involved, the United States missed the wise counsel it might otherwise have received. I hope the Department of Foreign Affairs could consider some of the wise counsel which might be useful even at this late stage in this appalling war.

The first thing I want to address is the situation regarding Shannon. I will not ask the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, to stop planes carrying military forces from landing in Shannon because it has been made plain that this is business and these flights have been going on for years. The Taoiseach does not think it offends our neutrality although other people believe it does. I am not alone in considering it wrong to send people through one of our major airports to an illegal war.

The situation I wish to address is the possible transfer of prisoners to Guantanamo Bay. Guantanamo Bay has not only been declared illegal by the international community because it operates outside the terms of the Geneva Convention, but it has also been declared illegal by courts in the United States of America. In fact, three members of a military tribunal which is to try people who have been kept there for years without trial, some of whom have been subjected to torture, have been dismissed because they were considered unsuitable.

On 26 June this year during the concluding Stages of the Transfer of Execution of Sentences Act, I asked the Minister, Deputy McDowell, what was the situation regarding untried and unsentenced people who might be going through Shannon. He said they would be subject to our Constitution if they landed on our soil and that if I had any further information on this situation I should give it to him. I do not have any further information, apart from the fact that in articles by Fintan O'Toole on 28 September in The Irish Times and Vincent Browne in the first edition of his magazine, Village, they suggested that an unmarked Gulfstream jet registered as N379P had been seen in Shannon. This plane had already been used to take two Egyptians from Sweden to an unknown destination and had also transported people from other places in Europe to elsewhere. The jet is owned by an unlisted American company and, as the headline in The Irish Times article asked, "Are we now party to kidnap?" We have to ask if the American authorities are transporting people to Guantanamo Bay through Shannon Airport. They do not give us any manifests but after what the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said, there is an obligation on the Government to tell people if this is happening. I urge the Minister of State, Deputy Treacy, to undertake this important task.

The second matter I wish to address relates to prisoners being held in Iraq. Over 9,000 prisoners have been held for over 18 months without being charged and without trial. I am sure Members of the House will have read A Secret History of the IRA by Ed Moloney. He makes the point in it that internment was the most effective recruitment tool for the IRA and resulted in even more new recruits than the burning of Bombay Street. I suggest that what the Americans are perpetuating in Iraq is a most serious own goal. Saddam Hussein used to intern people without trial and many such people disappeared. Many people in Iraq cannot find out where family members or friends have gone. For them it is very much a return to the good old days when the same thing took place. It is against international law to transfer people out of the country but the Americans have admitted to it. There may be really good strategic and political reasons for keeping people in prison, but I cannot understand why so many are being kept there. They could be described as hostages to fortune because as we have seen in the past their release has sometimes been requested by terrorists in return for hostages.

I raised this issue recently in a letter to The Irish Times regarding the imprisonment of two women scientists, Dr. Ammash and Dr. Taha. Dr. Ammash earned her doctorate in microbiology from the University of Missouri in 1983 and she got a Masters degree from Texas Women's University in 1979. Dr. Taha received postgraduate education in the University of East Anglia and she too worked on plant pathogens. They admitted they worked in the biological warfare department of Saddam Hussein's regime.

They were very well known on the international stage because they bought anthrax from America and equipment and supplies from America and Europe. That was in the good old days when the United States and other Western governments were best friends with Iraq as it was attacking Iran. Are they in fact being kept where they are because of what they might say about their previous work in these two countries if they came out? The United Kingdom has said it no longer has biological weapons but the United States has not said what it is doing about anything. It pulled out of the completion of the verification process of the United Nations convention on bio-terrorism when President Bush was elected. It is the only country where people died of anthrax poisoning in recent years. That came from a military source but has never been properly investigated.

More hostages are taken from the Iraqi population than from any other country. While it is quite right to appeal for the release of Western hostages, the extraordinarily good woman, Margaret Hassan, who was taken recently, would, I am sure, want us to appeal on behalf of everyone else. Chaos, mayhem and murder occur every day for Iraqi citizens. Madeline Hadi, a nine year old was taken from her father's car the other day, Zinah Hassan was taken on the way back to secondary school, Asma, a young engineer, was taken while out shopping with her mother and a male relative. A total of 250 university professors and scientists have been killed, 12 of the 14 journalists killed were Iraqi and 100 doctors have been killed or kidnapped. We must show more sensitivity, the Americans particularly, because the Iraqis feel people do not matter unless they come from the West. The Iraqi Department of Health has stopped issuing the number of Iraqis killed each day; that should re-start.

The economic occupation is a disgrace and should end at once. Coalition Provisional Authority Order No. 39, brought in on 19 September 2003 by Paul Bremer, allowed anyone to buy anything in Iraq. Initially, they said mineral rights could not be included but now they are to be included and even Prime Minister Allawi recently suggested that oil assets might be up for sale as well. The building of the enduring bases should also stop. Iraqis see these as a continuing operation that will go on forever and it is terrifying for other countries in the region to see this taking place. The Saudi Arabian bases are closed down. They should stop talking about imposing our values on Iraqis. A Turkish journalist who was kidnapped recently said those who kidnapped her were not fighting for Iraq but for Islam.

The Minister of State could also ask the Americans to accept help when it is offered. For example, the United Nations nuclear inspectors from Vienna wanted to continue supervising in Iraq. This was refused and now 380 tonnes of highly volatile munitions have been taken. They should also start giving money for reconstruction to Iraqi firms and stop giving it to Haliburton. Congress promised $85 billion for the reconstruction of Iraq, a few billion have been spent and $5 billion taken for security. This is robbing the Iraqi people of things they have been promised and I see no reason the Irish Government cannot point this out to the Americans.