Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)

This is an interesting debate and all sides have put forward worthwhile viewpoints, to which the Minister has listened carefully. The most experienced person here is Senator Minihan who has served 21 years with great distinction in the Army. He has great feeling for that particular job. Senator Maurice Hayes, who is a former ombudsman, also brings experience to bear. The appointment of an ombudsman for the Defence Forces is a major step forward. All the different structures, as outlined by Senator Minihan, are still there — the military police, military law, the upper echelons, including the civilian secretariat, and the Minister himself. I am not sure whether the Minister would have any powers to direct the ombudsman to look into any particular area of concern. However, we have gone far enough. Senator Brian Hayes's view is that where there is a difficulty between different ranks it is not the job of the ombudsman to work out the differences arising from the upstairs-downstairs mentality he alleges exists. I have not come across this and believe great respect is shown among serving personnel on all sides in the Army. It would be unnecessary to have such a provision and I believe the Minister should literally stick to his guns on this particular issue.